Jan. 24, 2025
TRAINER'S EYE #128 - "Alolan Sandslash Whiffed The Psychic Pokemon" ft. Angelo Pagano from Littleroot Lessons
In this Pokemon interview, we are joined by Angelo "Rho" Pagnoa a Pokemon Trainer and podcast host for Littleroot Lessons.
Angelo's Pokemon journey started with the Pokemon TCG where he would learn the Pokemon TCG at his locals. Angelo touches on the early days of competitive TCG and how it was more show up and play compared to the organized play of today.
Angelo dives into his journey into Pokemon VGC and playing the main series games. However, it wasn't until Pokemon Sword and Shield when he started to engage with competitive Pokemon. Angelo shares his progress to become the Pokemon Trainer he is today and what he enjoys most about engaging with the Pokemon community.
Finally Angelo dives into his involvement with Littleroot Lessons and his motivation to do Pokemon interviews of VGC players after certain regionals. And to finish off this interview, we play a game of "What's That Pokemon?"
Sources
Opening Song: "Forget You" by Alex_MakeMusic from Pixabay
Connect with Angelo: Twitter | Bluesky
Connect with David Hernandez: Linktree
E-mail Me: asthepokeballturnspodcast@gmail.com
Join Our Discord Community!
https://discord.gg/AqAbD7FbRt
Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hi, I'm Angelo from Literate Lessons, and this is my Pokémon story.
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Welcome to, as the pokeball turns, where we interview people about their experience with Pokemon.
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My name is David Hernandez I'm joined by Angelo from little root lessons podcast.
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Angelo.
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Thank you for coming on the podcast.
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Thank you for having me, David.
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Uh, this this has been, something that we've been trying to get done for, a couple months.
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life gets in the way, but super excited to be sitting on the other side of the microphone, so to speak.
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Let's give the listeners an idea of how much work we've had to go to this.
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You know, we had to travel by sea.
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I had to take a plane, then a fire alarm gone off, and then my dogs went crazy.
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And then all of a sudden I had to eat dinner and then all of a sudden my mic didn't want to work.
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And then all of a sudden I need to take a nap.
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It's been exhausting.
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We haven't even recorded.
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It absolutely has been, and that's not going the fact that I had to travel literally through space and time to get here.
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I need to catch Dialga and Palkia, we're talking two versions, to do the trades, a lot of work.
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And then I had to run a Giovanni and the team rocket was trying to kidnap Pikachu again.
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It's just an entire mess.
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Just trying to record this one episode.
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the universe was trying to stop this from happening.
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But we're here, and it's beautiful, it's going to be a great episode, I'm excited.
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It is, it is now, Angelo, I appreciate you reaching out to me and, you know, before we dive into all your journey and, dive into like you being a podcaster, What is it about you wanting to do a podcast with Pokemon that started this whole thing?
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So, when you're saying like, starting the podcast, I got into podcasting, It wasn't the direct way a lot of people do it where, as you were telling me beforehand David, where you said, Hi, I want to make this content.
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I love Pokemon.
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This is the passion project I can do.
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For me, so Literate Lessons isn't of my own creation.
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the creation is from Carl Wilkin and Carter Noble, two VCC players, and two of my dear friends.
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and a little before COVID, I want to say it was February of 2020, the two of them, they already had a Magic the Gathering podcast, but they were really getting out of Magic, decided to make a Pokemon podcast, specifically for Pokemon VGC.
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They end up posting the podcast, 2020 Angelo Finds It.
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I already knew about VGC, Sword and Shield just came out, and I was thinking, hey, let me get into it a little more, and the podcast was kind of my gateway into it.
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I joined their community, become friends with these guys, long story short, Carl had his first kid and wanted to step away from the week to week recording side.
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And since I was already coming in as a guest, I was so close with these guys we already had.
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The rapport you need to do a podcast with multiple guests, myself and another one of our friends jay we joined as two new hosts along with carter to Have this new literal lessons.
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So A roundabout way of answering your question I never chose this I was kind of Put into this and very happy I was put into this.
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Uh, Being able to spend multiple hours a week talking with my friends about a game I love so much, and a game that brought all of us together, is just probably one of the best privileges someone can have.
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So what you're saying is the Pokemon podcast, you didn't choose the Pokemon podcast life, the Pokemon podcast life chose you.
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Absolutely.
00:04:07.913 --> 00:04:08.223
Okay.
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What nickname did he give you?
00:04:09.913 --> 00:04:26.586
it gave me the nickname of Ro, and if you are a Little Root Lessons listener, or just someone in the general VGC sphere, a little funny story on how I got that name, in the Literate Lessons Discord server, Carter's, username for a while there was Mr.
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Missouri, that's the state that Carl and Carter are from.
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And, Everyone was doing Mr.
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and then State Name, and it was all Ms.
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And I didn't realize it was supposed to be a Mr.
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M thing.
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So I made my name Mr.
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Rhode Island because I wanted to be in on the joke, but I wasn't actually in on the joke.
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And, after a while of that, I was just under as Mr.
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Rhode Island, or Mr.
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R.
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I.
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that's the state I'm from.
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we were in a voice chat, and one of the other Mods and members of the Little Lessons community, Swede, Swede's wife asked him who he's talking to and he said, Oh, I'm talking to Carter and Ro, shortening Mr.
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Rhode Island to just Ro.
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And I was like, I like that, that kinda sticks.
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And I just rolled with it that I'm just Ro, and that's what I've been going by in the Pokemon sphere.
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Along with my actual name, I don't make my actual name a secret.
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but yeah, that's kind of how I got Roe.
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It was just a one off thing a friend said to his wife, and became kind of part of my identity for the last four and a half years.
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It's kind of cool.
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How you said, you know, a franchise you love kind of brought y'all together and even more so it's all through competitive y'all compete in Pokemon, trying to earn your chance to world to try to be the best that nobody ever was.
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What is it about competitive Pokemon that interests you and made you want to get engaged in that part of the franchise?
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I am a competitive person.
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I was an athlete, in high school.
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I, in middle school, I was a long distance runner and I just loved competing and due to some health issues I've had pretty much ever since I graduated high school, I wasn't able to keep that athleticism, that, that level of competition.
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And so, I've always been playing Pokemon, really not even just VGC.
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going back to when I was very, very young, when I was in middle school, early parts of high school.
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my brother and I actually played the trading card game competitively.
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this was back when there wasn't even a VGC when we started.
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It was, like, Worlds was solely the card game.
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so when I was a lot younger, back in generation 4, I went and played the card game competitively, my brother and I, at the local card shops near us.
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Uh, it was a lot smaller back then.
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The card game.
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That was the only official competitive outlet for Pokemon.
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And I loved collecting the cards.
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That's one of the ways I got into the Pokemon franchise to start.
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And I was one of the kids who actually read the rule book that came with the theme decks to figure out how to play this game.
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And we would go to tournaments for that.
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my brother and I both step aside playing the card game competitively for other extracurriculars, mainly sports.
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And between not being able to, Do the sport that did for so long and also wanting to get back into playing the Pokemon that I loved playing competitively.
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I decided to go with VGC instead of the TCG because I was already buying the game and it was cheaper.
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And I was thinking, hey, I can just use the online ladder.
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I was never thinking I'd be going to tournaments.
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Or, recording a weekly podcast covering all these events.
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And once I got into it, everything just snowballed.
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This was also when the COVID shutdowns happened as well.
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Oh, wow.
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nothing else for me to do.
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But listen to Pokemon podcasts, watch Cybertron and Wolfie videos, and just obsess over Picolytics usage stats to figure out like which Pokemon I should use.
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And it's just something that's like really, really kept with me because of the people that I met and the connections and friends I met uh, play in this game.
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At the time when you were into playing Pokemon TCG.
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Was it difficult to kind of learn by yourself at first or did you immediately step into trying to.
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Find the locals to kind of help you advance in the game.
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So I was a member of a league.
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There was a local card shop they had both Friday, And Saturday just free to play leagues you show up you play your matches with whoever else was there.
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It was a free for all no tournament Very fun sort of thing just play who was around if you want to play people like two three times in a row You could do that.
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You could switch up decks it's something that We found, and it was like a really great place to learn, meet people who just weren't, in your school or in your town, that also had this love of Pokemon.
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This was back in that weird time where, Pokemon wasn't the cool thing or the big thing as it is now.
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I don't know.
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I always, I wouldn't say I felt embarrassed that I played Pokemon, but it's not something I would bring up at school because it's like one of the things where, oh, you still play Pokemon and you get made fun of.
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It was like one of them little secrets that you didn't really bring the public because at the least for me, I remember it was more Yu Gi Oh or more being in the sports.
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If you were in a Pokemon, you're like, what the hell's wrong with you?
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Kind of thing.
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yeah, it was definitely that.
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And especially I was in middle school and every middle schooler is just awkward.
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Uh, so it was one of the things where it was nice where it was something I was so passionate about.
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And it was a place where I can.
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be with people who had this same passion and enjoyment about Pokemon as I did.
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And I wasn't completely alone.
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I have a younger brother who also played Pokemon with me and we would both go to tournaments together and we would play against each other at home and test decks against each other.
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And so I always had that with him as well.
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So not like I was fully, fully alone, but it was like one of the things where we had a league funny thing about the person who owns that card shop, that card shop ended up getting sold about 15 or so years ago, and one of the non Pokemon things I do, I'm a Freemason.
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And one of the days, I'm at my lodge, the building where we meet, and see this guy here, haven't him at the lodge before, and he looks familiar, and I go up to him, like, hey, are you so and so?
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Did you used to own this card shop?
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And he looked at me, he's like, Angelo, is that you?
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Like, he completely, recognized me.
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And he's like, I remember when you were not even twelve, like ten.
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and it's like one of the things where, like, literal full circle, the person who owned the shop that helped give me this passion, I now see weekly.
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Uh, he met my wife at my largest Christmas party, I said, Babe.
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If you want to know why I'm a 29, 30 year old man child blame this man
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It's his fault.
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Although I'm not complaining though.
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No No, not at all
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It brings actually an interesting story.
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I've never shared before.
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So back when I was younger and you know, I saw a commercial saying like, you should go join your local Pokemon league and I'm like, you can earn a badge.
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I'm like, I can be like Ash Ketchum, but like you, I was ashamed.
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I was like, I don't know what to say.
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I feel kind of embarrassed.
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So one day I go to a car shop in a closed down mall called six it's in Arlington.
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and I went inside and there was a car shop, it was supposed to be a league and I go to the store and I'm like, Hey, do I get to be a part?
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I'm like whispering.
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How do I get to be a part of the book?
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And because there's guys, you know, shopping other stuff and looking around for, you know, whatever that was.
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And the guy is like, I cannot hear you, man.
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And I keep whispering.
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I'm like, Hey, I'm just trying to find out where the Pokemon league.
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And I'm just so embarrassed.
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I don't know what to say.
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Cause there's people next to me, there's a card owner.
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I have no idea what I'm supposed to be asking.
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And then eventually I just, he said something like, Oh, it's not happening tonight, and I just ran out cause I was just.
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So nervous I wasn't comfortable being in my own skin asking about a Pokemon leg, but it's just a different time that thankfully people nowadays don't get to, thankfully, don't have to experience.
00:12:22.340 --> 00:12:34.279
Yeah, it is really weird where I think that's one of the things that really helped it is pokemon go And all of us Nerdy kids who didn't fall off Pokemon after Gen 1 or Gen 2.
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and now we're just all adults and we just don't care.
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I also think that just the growth of Pokemon, it's the number one media franchise in the entire world.
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Bigger than Star Wars, bigger than Mario, bigger than Mickey Mouse.
00:12:50.173 --> 00:12:54.701
it's like unavoidable where yeah, you could say like everyone knows what it is now.
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It's not just this late 90s early aughts fad And everyone's just cool with it
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So obviously you're more involved with VGC nowadays, but at the time you originally started with TCG, were you not much into the game side of Pokemon at the time?
00:13:09.674 --> 00:13:10.174
Or
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So, I was in a household that was a no video game household for a while.
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My first actual experience with Pokemon was back in 99.
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and before the kids were picked up, we would have like a TV time, and people can bring in VHSs, remember those?
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Oh my gosh, people don't even know what those are anymore.
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Yeah, look it up.
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you don't know what it is, look it up.
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But yeah, so, some kid brought in a Pokemon VHS, and the first ever experience with Pokemon I saw, it was the episode that Ash caught Muk.
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And that was my first thing I thought was cool.
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And this was right around when the first movie was coming out as well.
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So there were all these commercials.
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The show was everywhere.
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And I think I was at the right age where I saw the show.
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And my dad, he loves collecting cards.
00:13:58.932 --> 00:14:45.934
he used to trade Baseball cards and go to the big baseball card shows so when he saw that this interest I had had a card aspect to it He would buy me and my brother packs and we started collecting in that sense It wasn't until I was like 9 a little after fire in the leaf green came out is When I got a game boy and I got the Pokemon video game But I always kept that love of the cards because that is what Started me with everything and As I said before When I we going to leagues and everything and just playing competitively There was no VGC at the time back in oh six there was a tournament called the journey across America That I was too young to even understand what that was.
00:14:46.684 --> 00:14:52.924
was, that's kind of what people will point to as one of the first official competitive doubles tournaments.
00:14:53.243 --> 00:14:59.003
Hulk Hogan was actually the commentator for finals at Bryant Park in New York, for that event.
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that's not a bit, that's real.
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Look it up so, yeah, like it, if I, for me to play competitively, it was always just.
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But I knew when VGC became a thing, I knew about it.
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I just never dove into it, really.
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One of the biggest issues with VGC, especially back then, is It can be a little daunting to get into, as someone who is 12 or 13 years old, having to look up EVs, IVs, nature, breeding, and this was before there were nature mints, before there were bottle caps, really, like, back in Gen 4 and Gen 5, before there was even to pass down IVs using A 6IV ditto and a Destiny knot like it literally was just random and there was so much work that needed to be done To get a team that it was just too daunting to get into
00:15:50.361 --> 00:15:56.131
To even add on, there was even before Flame Body was a thing, because Flame Body was only one game in those generation of games.
00:15:56.231 --> 00:15:58.922
So you were literally hatching the entire mount.
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There was no reduction whatsoever.
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Mm hmm.
00:16:00.812 --> 00:16:19.761
And not to mention needing to get legendaries having to soft reset there is a really really great youtube channel i'm a blissey Please And they mostly deal with, RNG manipulation, but what they do is, they'll have a video where like they went and made the first world champion team.
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And, they'll be like, I'm gonna make this team from scratch, I'm gonna record everything I do, and I'm gonna tell you how long it takes me to make this team.
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And, some of the earlier teams, 20, I believe it was like, he did a video, they did a video on RayRizzo's 2010 Worlds team.
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And, it took them well over 50 60 hours to make this 6 Pokemon team.
00:16:46.484 --> 00:16:47.943
Only 50 to 60 hours.
00:16:47.964 --> 00:16:49.494
Wow Yeah,
00:16:49.708 --> 00:17:09.715
was and now it's you can and now it's a lot easier You can make a team In two to three hours and honestly, you could probably do it a lot faster there's been times where Before a local I decide to make two or three changes on my team And i'm able to make all those changes within 30 minutes or so
00:17:10.304 --> 00:17:22.181
you bring up so many points about the archaic side of competitive on the TCG side You have a point your first time when you and your brother just going and you are just randomly playing You're not even like having to pay an entry fee.
00:17:22.181 --> 00:17:34.040
You're not having to be linked up together Y'all just playing people who are actually there It's just like a little gathering before nowadays if you play TCG you have to sign up you're paired together There's a whole database behind it.
00:17:34.040 --> 00:17:44.852
Keep in mind this is even before computers were more advanced to what they are now You And then when we flip the mirror to both VGC, VGC, it was difficult to get, the ideal IVs.
00:17:44.872 --> 00:17:47.291
You're spending hours trying to get the right Pokemon.
00:17:47.642 --> 00:17:54.372
you don't have the items, the abilities are way limited and the speed of trying to get that is more, way more grindy than it is nowadays.
00:17:54.787 --> 00:18:00.931
How does it feel to just seeing that early part of competitive Pokemon and what it takes to what it is now?
00:18:01.861 --> 00:18:14.396
I really can't speak to too much of the VGC side, that would be better for, there's a lot of, I, affectionately call them, a lot of old heads who can speak to that significantly more than I can.
00:18:14.666 --> 00:18:20.520
I knew the process, I knew about it, but even then it's not something I never really attempted to do.
00:18:20.955 --> 00:18:42.608
Until I'd say Gen 6, Gen 7 is when I first actually tried starting to even just for specific natures But I think the biggest thing was with the TCG It was always easier to just play that because worst case scenario if you were missing a card, you could just buy it When I played specifically the cards really weren't that expensive.
00:18:42.608 --> 00:18:50.308
There was only one crazy expensive card back then a Luxray G level X Which was, at the time, an 80 card.
00:18:50.622 --> 00:18:52.622
everything else was just cheaper.
00:18:52.942 --> 00:19:00.445
there this was the Pokemon Lulz, so there wasn't a 200 300 Pikachu card coming out every other set.
00:19:00.861 --> 00:19:06.627
And you have the Elite Trainer Boxes going for 150, and Scalpers going crazy.
00:19:07.347 --> 00:19:10.538
I played TCG, that wasn't a thing whatsoever.
00:19:10.857 --> 00:19:17.403
So, if there was a single card you needed, if you had the dollar or two it would take, you could just buy it.
00:19:17.854 --> 00:19:25.163
And that was a lot easier compared to VGC, where it was a lot, a lot, a lot of work.
00:19:25.163 --> 00:19:31.574
For minimal payout in a lot of cases, like, honestly, a lot of things you weren't in control over.
00:19:31.911 --> 00:19:36.050
Nintendo and the Pokemon company, they definitely have looked into trying to fix it.
00:19:36.381 --> 00:19:49.105
Every generation it feels like it becomes easier, or relatively easier, to Get your Pokemon, Scarlet and Violet had a lot of good things, but there were a few aspects of Scarlet and Violet that I think were taking steps backwards.
00:19:49.105 --> 00:19:57.355
In terms of trying to get Pokemon, the good things they did were making bottle caps level 50 cap instead of a level 100 cap.
00:19:58.164 --> 00:20:00.424
it's super easy to get your Pokemon up to level 50.
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:01.660
Very much so.
00:20:01.710 --> 00:20:02.200
Yeah.
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.099
with all of the experience candies.
00:20:04.490 --> 00:20:11.949
The way Egg Moves work now, you just need an item, the Mirror Herb, and it's not like you have to breed the Pokemon to get the Egg Move.
00:20:12.169 --> 00:20:18.068
You just have the two of them in the party together, holding this item, and as long as it has the empty move slot, it just gets it.
00:20:18.318 --> 00:20:20.759
That's something that saves a lot of time.
00:20:20.969 --> 00:20:33.328
The worst feeling was to hit that, perfect IV Pokemon with the nature and everything and then you look at it and you realize that you used the wrong parent that Didn't have the egg move and you got to start the whole process over again.
00:20:33.798 --> 00:20:36.568
I'm not saying I ever did that Maybe who can say?
00:20:38.848 --> 00:20:56.567
But now it's very easy, it's oh I forgot to give my Incineroar a fake out Well, grab a fake out Pokemon and it's here now on the other side of things and this might just be a me thing, I really hate how they have breeding in generation 9.
00:20:57.228 --> 00:21:00.248
I just don't think it's an efficient cycle of getting eggs.
00:21:00.248 --> 00:21:07.178
It's probably my least favorite part of gen 9, is just what they did to breeding for Pokemon eggs.
00:21:07.647 --> 00:21:15.799
And the Terra Shards, especially early on, I Getting 50 Terra Shards is very, very difficult for a specific type.
00:21:16.259 --> 00:21:20.884
And, in this generation, a lot of times you'll need to change a Pokemon's Terra type.
00:21:20.884 --> 00:21:24.835
for defensive purposes, even for certain offensive purposes.
00:21:24.855 --> 00:21:32.832
Like, Dragonite will run Terra Normal a lot in order for it to get a same type attack boost on extreme speed.
00:21:33.241 --> 00:21:36.192
And they weren't giving out, like, a Terra Normal Dragonite.
00:21:36.201 --> 00:21:56.816
So it's not something you could bring down, you have to change it, you have to get the 50 normal Terror Shards, and if you're unlucky in terms of your own raids, and you can't get the Blizzy raids, or you're not getting the right online raids, then you literally might not be able to get that specific thing you need for your Pokemon.
00:21:57.163 --> 00:21:59.482
that would be my biggest, like, downside.
00:21:59.787 --> 00:22:06.906
whatever regional gimmick they have in Generation 10, I hope that it's just something that is easy to slap on.
00:22:07.239 --> 00:22:11.479
such as what Dynamax was, or Z Moves, or Mega Evolutions.
00:22:11.778 --> 00:22:17.951
Where it was either just available from the get go as is, or an easy to obtain item.
00:22:18.402 --> 00:22:22.551
Instead of it being a very to obtain item you need 50 of.
00:23:10.446 --> 00:23:13.576
Do you have a particular favorite generation of games that you enjoyed playing?
00:23:14.182 --> 00:23:18.051
So gen three and gen four, because those were my childhood generations.
00:23:18.051 --> 00:23:26.178
I think the generation when you were nine through 12 is the coolest generation So I have a lot of fond memories of playing those games.
00:23:26.178 --> 00:23:35.532
I remember buying my Ds and getting Diamond and pearl the same day or like getting heart gold, soul silver with my brother and playing through those games.
00:23:36.303 --> 00:23:40.972
And of course the Gen 3 games as well, getting Sapphire and Leaf Green for Christmas.
00:23:41.673 --> 00:23:47.426
I think every Pokemon fan can remember the Christmas, when they got their first Game Boy and Pokemon game.
00:23:47.686 --> 00:23:49.876
Cause that's probably the best Christmas you ever had.
00:23:50.186 --> 00:23:54.730
But, on a competitive side, I've only really played Gen 8 and Gen 9 competitively.
00:23:55.690 --> 00:23:59.759
as much crap as Sword and Shield gets, I do have a really soft spot for it.
00:24:00.056 --> 00:24:03.036
That was the game that really made me fall back in love with Pokemon.
00:24:03.329 --> 00:24:08.559
I played the Gen 6 games, I played the Gen 7 games, really didn't like Gen 7.
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