March 19, 2025

TRAINER'S EYE #141 - "Roselia Following the Sweet Scent to Community" ft. Greg Leatherman from Very Random Encounters

TRAINER'S EYE #141 -
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Youtube Music podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Youtube Music podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 1 Podcasters

In this exciting Pokémon interview, we're joined by Greg Leatherman, a Pokémon Trainer, avid RPG fan, and host of "Very Random Encounters" podcast.

Greg shares his unique journey as an adult Pokémon fan, diving into the allure of Pokémon and how the series’ world-building captivated him. His favorite Pokémon, Roselia, first appeared in Pokémon Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald, and Greg reflects on the charm of discovering new Pokémon through each generation. He offers his insights into Pokémon’s evolution, critiques the lore inconsistencies across generations, and discusses what makes each installment special in its own way.

Greg also opens up about his podcasting journey with It’s Super Effective and the impact it’s had on both him and fans who tuned into the show. He shares how his experiences as a gay man within the Pokémon community have sparked meaningful conversations and shaped how fans engage with the franchise and even reconsider ideas about homosexuality. Through his open discussions, Greg has helped create a space for diverse perspectives in Pokemon.

 Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the Pokémon world, this episode offers a rich and engaging conversation about the beloved franchise. 

Sources
Opening Song: "Forget You" by Alex_MakeMusic from Pixabay

Connect with Greg Leatherman: Website

Send us a text

Support the show

Connect with David Hernandez: Linktree
E-mail Me: asthepokeballturnspodcast@gmail.com

Join Our Discord Community!
https://discord.gg/AqAbD7FbRt

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.289 --> 00:00:04.459
Hello, I am Greg, and this is my Pokemon story.

00:00:49.262 --> 00:00:54.031
Welcome to as the Pokemon Turns, where we interview people about their experience with Pokemon.

00:00:54.481 --> 00:00:58.893
My name is David Hernandez I'm joined by Liz Sander, AKA.

00:00:58.893 --> 00:01:06.963
You may know him as Greg, one of the speakers from It's super effective here to share his experience with Pokemon Greg, welcome to Ask the Pokemon Turns.

00:01:06.963 --> 00:01:07.834
Thank you for coming on.

00:01:07.909 --> 00:01:08.179
Yeah.

00:01:08.179 --> 00:01:09.049
Thanks for having me.

00:01:09.078 --> 00:01:09.649
Hello.

00:01:09.679 --> 00:01:10.429
Hello everybody.

00:01:10.864 --> 00:01:11.373
Hello.

00:01:11.403 --> 00:01:11.703
Hello.

00:01:11.703 --> 00:01:15.993
It definitely is, and it's always nice to see people who are fans of the franchise, who have been fans for a long time.

00:01:15.993 --> 00:01:18.963
Because I told you before we record, we're kind of a different breed.

00:01:18.963 --> 00:01:22.804
We've been through ins and outs and the ups and downs of what comes with Pokemon.

00:01:23.373 --> 00:01:25.054
I wanna start with this, uh, question.

00:01:25.054 --> 00:01:28.263
What keeps you engaged when it just comes to Pokemon itself?

00:01:29.054 --> 00:01:32.444
It's funny because I didn't have the same experience that a lot of people do.

00:01:32.593 --> 00:01:35.414
This wasn't that I picked up as a kid.

00:01:35.683 --> 00:01:36.103
Mm-hmm.

00:01:36.134 --> 00:01:37.694
not a child when this started.

00:01:38.444 --> 00:01:39.884
a full grown adult.

00:01:40.298 --> 00:01:44.103
but I find the whole series incredibly charming.

00:01:44.584 --> 00:01:48.093
It makes me think of a better world in some ways.

00:01:48.454 --> 00:01:50.555
it's generally a good gameplay.

00:01:50.555 --> 00:01:55.870
I find the stories that they tell when they're bad, mildly interesting.

00:01:56.177 --> 00:01:57.796
you know, I'm a, game designer.

00:01:57.796 --> 00:01:59.415
I play a lot of role playing games.

00:01:59.415 --> 00:02:04.495
I find the world really just a fascinating world to think about.

00:02:04.495 --> 00:02:06.355
Be in, think about the lore.

00:02:06.751 --> 00:02:09.450
For the most part, with some exceptions.

00:02:09.450 --> 00:02:14.281
I like pretty much every aspect of the games, and a bunch of the side games.

00:02:14.673 --> 00:02:25.016
I think their strength has always been like, one of the things they've done is they've made a thousand creatures now and all for about like four, that somebody's favorite.

00:02:25.046 --> 00:02:32.787
There was like four that were voted on that got zero That got zero votes, but almost everything else had, everybody has a favorite.

00:02:33.437 --> 00:02:42.647
That's kind of crazy though, like we're a thousand deep and then you know, like you said, the world building and just how deep it goes into is always been something that's interested in me because there's always like.

00:02:43.263 --> 00:02:54.812
The surface level stuff, and then there's always like, if you go deeper into it, so you don't e either way, you still get kind of an experience and the more deeper you get into the franchise, the more you kind of realize like, man, they really thought this stuff through.

00:02:56.057 --> 00:02:59.147
I wish they thought it threw more, um.

00:02:59.193 --> 00:03:00.302
What's one of your big peeves?

00:03:00.302 --> 00:03:02.223
Let's type, let's talk about what's one thing that bugs you.

00:03:02.883 --> 00:03:11.163
so it really came forward in, so I mean they fixed one of the longstanding issues, right?

00:03:11.163 --> 00:03:17.056
Like so they finally stated in Omega, ruby, alpha sapphire that each console is its own universe.

00:03:17.397 --> 00:03:19.647
like they finally solved that problem.

00:03:19.647 --> 00:03:30.478
Like you're, all of these are in their own universes, which is why, you know, the Let's Go Canto, which is in its own switch universe is different than the Game Boy canto.

00:03:30.478 --> 00:03:32.457
Like they are different universes.

00:03:32.457 --> 00:03:42.717
They have different rules that they play by, they have done a good job of sort of implying that if you inadvertently cross universes.

00:03:43.632 --> 00:03:44.951
You will lose your memory.

00:03:44.951 --> 00:03:50.382
So we have examples like Annabel coming into Omega, Ruby, alpha Z remember who she is.

00:03:50.757 --> 00:03:56.437
INO in, legend Zaist has no memory, has vague memories of what was going on.

00:03:57.276 --> 00:04:07.485
The problem is that we get to the Scarlet and Violet, where they play with that idea, but refuse to actually answer the question of paradox.

00:04:08.596 --> 00:04:09.825
do they mean by paradox?

00:04:09.825 --> 00:04:17.235
And they begin to play with the idea of time travel, which effective in Violet, like going into the future.

00:04:17.235 --> 00:04:24.807
We have no idea of what's happening in the future, but if Sada actually goes into the past, that creates a whole slew of problems.

00:04:25.677 --> 00:04:26.728
would be a record.

00:04:26.728 --> 00:04:28.528
We know they dig up fossils.

00:04:28.677 --> 00:04:37.288
There would be things about a person traveling to the past that we would find record of, and they just sort of refuse to answer that.

00:04:37.468 --> 00:04:43.588
They also don't really answer why the paradox Pokemon aren't any of the Fossil Pokemon, why they're so different.

00:04:43.617 --> 00:04:51.564
Like they just sort of refused to answer those lower questions and they kept promising like, we're gonna learn the secret of Area Zero.

00:04:51.564 --> 00:04:52.194
We're like, cool.

00:04:52.194 --> 00:04:54.413
We're gonna answer what paradox Pokemon are.

00:04:54.744 --> 00:04:55.884
Nope, it's just a turtle.

00:04:56.418 --> 00:04:57.077
Okay.

00:04:57.168 --> 00:04:59.298
Like, the turtle does what?

00:04:59.358 --> 00:05:00.557
What is the turtle doing?

00:05:00.557 --> 00:05:00.887
How?

00:05:01.218 --> 00:05:04.817
How does that affect paradox that you've created?

00:05:05.117 --> 00:05:06.528
Are they people's dreams?

00:05:06.677 --> 00:05:07.697
Are they wishes?

00:05:07.937 --> 00:05:09.918
Are they actually from a different time?

00:05:09.918 --> 00:05:10.997
Is it a different dimension?

00:05:10.997 --> 00:05:20.987
Like what are, you've created a lore, but you will not go enough to actually make something concrete, which.

00:05:21.194 --> 00:05:29.024
I don't like, I want concrete answers so that things consistent and play by the same rules from game to game.

00:05:29.444 --> 00:05:33.644
And they really, in Scarlet and Violet, were like, no, we're not gonna answer that.

00:05:33.704 --> 00:05:36.584
And we're just gonna be loosey goosey with it.

00:05:36.584 --> 00:05:43.112
Like they also, copped out at the end of Legends Archus as well, like, how are we in the past?

00:05:43.634 --> 00:05:49.875
But it is a different region and they don't sort of explain how that transfers over into, into actual Cino.

00:05:50.024 --> 00:05:52.545
They're sort of like, oh, well it, it's different region.

00:05:52.665 --> 00:06:04.064
And then for some reason his Sui Pokemon are now in the future, but we're not gonna explain how they got there either that it's gonna be in raids or they're just gonna be on this area.

00:06:04.064 --> 00:06:05.115
And the people found them.

00:06:05.115 --> 00:06:10.004
Or Blood Moon, UR Sauna was just arou, like swam here and was just around.

00:06:10.004 --> 00:06:11.654
So it's been around for.

00:06:12.615 --> 00:06:13.605
many thousand years?

00:06:13.605 --> 00:06:14.204
How many years?

00:06:14.204 --> 00:06:14.774
Like what?

00:06:14.925 --> 00:06:17.324
What are you doing with these timelines?

00:06:17.475 --> 00:06:33.569
Like I just want a level of consistency to just so that I feel like somebody at the company has a big book of, of lore and is actually like, this is the lore of our world and I just don't feel that they do that.

00:06:33.569 --> 00:06:35.009
And it makes me bananas.

00:06:35.605 --> 00:06:41.463
And that's the tricky part with time travel and forward or backwards and stories.

00:06:41.463 --> 00:06:44.463
They usually are tried best avoid it because it creates this kind of.

00:06:45.153 --> 00:06:46.684
Oddly enough paradox.

00:06:47.014 --> 00:06:47.403
Right?

00:06:48.153 --> 00:06:52.264
And it bugged me too, because you think about legends, we'll start with there.

00:06:52.624 --> 00:06:55.353
You got his and Arana, you've got his and Zora.

00:06:55.954 --> 00:06:58.744
Okay then how are they not in the present?

00:06:58.774 --> 00:06:59.254
Right?

00:06:59.553 --> 00:07:06.334
And then you think about you, you alluded to the fossil Pokemon, they're, how are they not alluded to in Pokemon, um, Scarlet.

00:07:06.814 --> 00:07:10.173
And you've got now more of these inconsistencies and you're kind of just left off.

00:07:10.204 --> 00:07:12.363
Oh, it just this mystery

00:07:12.574 --> 00:07:13.084
Yeah.

00:07:13.144 --> 00:07:22.803
trying to string together the lore, like they did a lot of heavy lifting by finally saying each one was a different universe, but they just sort of refuse to really tie it down.

00:07:23.553 --> 00:07:23.913
mm-hmm.

00:07:24.124 --> 00:07:33.033
think like, at this point, it feels like they just kind of don't care about being consistent, which is a choice.

00:07:33.274 --> 00:07:35.014
I'm, fine with that.

00:07:35.014 --> 00:07:45.874
If they would just sort of come out and just say, we're, you know, these are, we are telling myths, we are telling mythology, we are creating fairytales and it doesn't have to be consistent.

00:07:46.473 --> 00:07:47.824
I'm sort of fine with that.

00:07:47.884 --> 00:07:50.374
If they would just make that statement.

00:07:51.031 --> 00:07:56.370
I think it would've been fine if we had just found out that all these worlds are just from a memory from a kid.

00:07:56.706 --> 00:07:57.937
they started from collecting bugs.

00:07:57.937 --> 00:07:58.656
That was the whole story.

00:07:58.656 --> 00:08:03.336
And this, his kid just maybe had just been writing stories the entire time and were just like figments of his dreams.

00:08:03.336 --> 00:08:05.406
I would've actually been better with that than what we're trying to do now.

00:08:05.497 --> 00:08:06.156
But anyway, go ahead.

00:08:06.291 --> 00:08:09.201
I mean it makes the dream world even more complicated.

00:08:09.201 --> 00:08:10.401
'cause they introduced that.

00:08:10.401 --> 00:08:12.471
It's like, okay, what is, where is that?

00:08:12.471 --> 00:08:13.221
What does that mean?

00:08:13.476 --> 00:08:14.377
A dreaming and a dream.

00:08:14.632 --> 00:08:15.711
out of the dream world?

00:08:16.012 --> 00:08:17.512
It what, what is that even?

00:08:17.781 --> 00:08:19.101
Yeah, it's, it's wild.

00:08:20.692 --> 00:08:23.031
Well, you know, obviously you have a lot of experience.

00:08:23.091 --> 00:08:24.411
Let's start from the beginning real quick.

00:08:24.411 --> 00:08:25.612
Let's, uh, dive into that.

00:08:25.612 --> 00:08:27.266
You know, what's your first experience with Pokemon?

00:08:28.192 --> 00:08:34.731
So my first experience was when the games came out in 1998 here in America.

00:08:35.025 --> 00:08:36.225
I.

00:08:36.264 --> 00:08:43.734
Was a full blown adult and I was gonna go sit in line'cause it was the nineties and you couldn't do things online.

00:08:44.693 --> 00:08:50.153
and I were gonna go sit in line to pick up Star Wars tickets'cause you had to sit in line to actually get tickets.

00:08:50.153 --> 00:08:53.303
Like, so we were like, okay, we're gonna go there, we're gonna get there at like eight in the morning.

00:08:53.543 --> 00:08:56.573
The box office opens at like four, so we're just gonna sit in line.

00:08:56.693 --> 00:09:03.563
And I was like, well I need something to do while I'm sitting in line'cause I'm not gonna talk to my brother for roughly eight hours.

00:09:03.953 --> 00:09:05.333
It's just not gonna happen.

00:09:05.589 --> 00:09:06.788
Oh, you're having to camp out for this?

00:09:06.788 --> 00:09:06.879
Oh, wow.

00:09:07.313 --> 00:09:11.994
yeah, we had to go sit line out, well camp out.

00:09:12.114 --> 00:09:17.394
It was indoors, it was at the Mall of America, so it wasn't really, it wasn't like out on the street, but

00:09:17.453 --> 00:09:17.844
sure.

00:09:17.874 --> 00:09:25.913
indoors and I was a big comic reader and I kept seeing ads for this new role playing game Pokemon.

00:09:25.943 --> 00:09:26.754
And I'm like, I like.

00:09:26.846 --> 00:09:29.726
JR pgs, I am a big final fantasy fan.

00:09:30.057 --> 00:09:31.197
This looks fun.

00:09:31.226 --> 00:09:32.096
I'll just pick it up.

00:09:32.307 --> 00:09:34.047
'cause what's the worst thing that happened?

00:09:34.047 --> 00:09:36.177
I pick it up, I don't like it.

00:09:36.956 --> 00:09:41.510
put it away and play a different No harm, no foul, like whatever.

00:09:41.510 --> 00:09:42.471
It's 30 bucks.

00:09:42.931 --> 00:09:46.201
popped it in started and I was immediately hooked.

00:09:46.201 --> 00:09:49.620
I'm like, this hits all the notes.

00:09:49.801 --> 00:09:53.221
It's a good RPG, it's got a semi-decent combat system.

00:09:53.221 --> 00:09:54.811
It's got super cute creatures.

00:09:55.236 --> 00:09:59.321
And I was in, I'm like, yep, this is a really great series.

00:09:59.844 --> 00:10:04.447
and then I started, like, expanded out from there, like looking at the anime and I'm like, oh, the anime's fine.

00:10:05.197 --> 00:10:13.506
know, it's got its charm, but it's also very much geared towards kids, because it's not a complex series and they aren't very consistent.

00:10:13.897 --> 00:10:15.067
But I just thought.

00:10:15.101 --> 00:10:21.135
The creatures that they were creating and sort of the world that they were hinting to were really fascinating.

00:10:21.586 --> 00:10:22.515
And I just loved it.

00:10:22.515 --> 00:10:25.096
I'm like, this is just, and it's also just fun, right?

00:10:25.096 --> 00:10:27.405
Like Gen one didn't work very well.

00:10:27.405 --> 00:10:29.865
Half the moves didn't do what they said they would like.

00:10:30.105 --> 00:10:35.686
It took me years to get over the fact that Swords dance actually worked and Focus Energy actually worked.

00:10:35.686 --> 00:10:37.066
'cause they didn't work in Gen one.

00:10:37.066 --> 00:10:39.916
So my first experience was like, why would I ever use these?

00:10:39.916 --> 00:10:47.265
They don't work, they don't do anything that it says, I am reading the text, but that is not happening in this game.

00:10:47.785 --> 00:10:55.499
then I was just, I was in, like, I was just sold on the series, on the concept, very let down by gen two.

00:10:55.926 --> 00:11:03.635
And then gen three, which is my gen, really sort of solidified like, this is a real, this is a real thing.

00:11:03.635 --> 00:11:06.035
They're gonna really try to make this a franchise.

00:11:07.056 --> 00:11:08.615
I think you're the first one I've ever heard.

00:11:08.956 --> 00:11:10.495
Who doesn't like gen two?

00:11:10.610 --> 00:11:11.660
Gen two is awful.

00:11:12.115 --> 00:11:12.336
Wow.

00:11:12.556 --> 00:11:12.775
Why?

00:11:13.035 --> 00:11:14.096
What's your reasoning behind that?

00:11:14.096 --> 00:11:14.936
That's very interesting.

00:11:15.530 --> 00:11:26.634
Gen two, and again, I will preface this like I was a full blown adult playing this game and realizing it was a poor of everything they did in Gen one.

00:11:27.413 --> 00:11:32.754
They made a tiny region, they brought back team Rocket, but made them worse.

00:11:33.053 --> 00:11:45.110
So instead of making them a criminal organization that was actually a threat n Gen two, they suddenly made them a cult to personality that couldn't function without a leader, which is like, okay, why now?

00:11:45.140 --> 00:11:53.451
'cause you were a threat before and you're leader left and you're still around, but you're just lost and you don't know what to do without Giovanni.

00:11:53.451 --> 00:11:57.831
Like that doesn't make sense with what you were before and you're doing the same things.

00:11:57.890 --> 00:11:58.160
Okay?

00:11:58.160 --> 00:12:03.291
So instead of taking over a department store and a scientist place, you're taking over a radio station.

00:12:04.221 --> 00:12:06.140
It's the exact same plot line.

00:12:06.510 --> 00:12:10.201
the gym leaders didn't use Gen two Pokemon half the time.

00:12:10.201 --> 00:12:12.191
It's like, what are you, what are you doing?

00:12:12.671 --> 00:12:13.240
Why?

00:12:13.640 --> 00:12:16.130
it really heavily relies on a lot of backtracking.

00:12:16.221 --> 00:12:23.167
And then instead of having a bigger, more flushed out region, they're like, well, let's go back to canto'cause this is our last hurrah.

00:12:23.506 --> 00:12:25.277
And they didn't do anything.

00:12:25.547 --> 00:12:27.226
They didn't do anything over there.

00:12:27.226 --> 00:12:34.246
The gym leaders didn't really progress the levels between things that you capture and the grasp versus where the levels are for the gym.

00:12:34.246 --> 00:12:36.136
Leaders are incongruent.

00:12:36.167 --> 00:12:38.716
Like they don't try to match the levels.

00:12:38.866 --> 00:12:45.846
They don't have a set reason for you to be over there other than you're just revisiting a game that you had just played two years ago.

00:12:46.236 --> 00:12:52.596
It was clear, and they have said this, it was clear when they started that that was going to be the last game in the series.

00:12:53.014 --> 00:12:55.563
And I think they phoned in a lot of that game.

00:12:55.990 --> 00:12:58.990
they weren't forward thinking when they made gen two.

00:12:59.230 --> 00:13:02.591
They were, let's just repeat the success we had of Gen one.

00:13:02.921 --> 00:13:05.441
And it's a good formula to repeat your success.

00:13:05.561 --> 00:13:08.500
It's not a great formula if you're going to have a franchise.

00:13:08.976 --> 00:13:25.303
and so gen two, as an adult, hearing how Angry Gen Two made parents because of the day night cycle, the events that happened on certain days, parents were just furious that their kids were like making weird demands about this dumb game.

00:13:25.394 --> 00:13:29.864
And I think really that, sort of hurt them for a while going forward.

00:13:30.214 --> 00:13:34.474
it's just a problematic generation that I always look at like.

00:13:34.767 --> 00:13:40.076
You had the chance to really make a sparkling sequel and you just kind of made a rehash of Gen one.

00:13:40.496 --> 00:13:41.336
Thank God.

00:13:41.336 --> 00:13:49.496
Gen three came along because Gen three was when I could tell that they were being very deliberate about the games they were gonna make going forward.

00:13:50.456 --> 00:13:52.496
And Gen three really is a turning point.

00:13:52.527 --> 00:14:04.864
I look at that as like one of the most important generations because they were willing to say, we know we can't connect to the old games, so we're leaving them behind and we'll figure it out as we go forward, but we are actually going to move forward.

00:14:05.297 --> 00:14:11.206
I think you bring up a good point because a lot of people who grew up with Gen two, gen one were younger.

00:14:11.297 --> 00:14:15.136
You know, were still not able to process the reasoning behind the story.

00:14:15.736 --> 00:14:22.817
And you kind of bring up some of the flaws I guess, that kinda get overlooked to where Team Rocket appeared as a threat in Gen one.

00:14:22.861 --> 00:14:23.282
Mm-hmm.

00:14:23.417 --> 00:14:31.486
know, cops and everybody were worried about these organizations and then you go to gen two and they're in a slow poke, well, couldn't slow poke tail for reasons.

00:14:31.856 --> 00:14:35.277
And it kinda shows that it kinda was just duct taped together in a way.

00:14:35.576 --> 00:14:37.947
But then I loved Gen three for the reasons you said.

00:14:38.006 --> 00:14:40.346
I felt like the world building was much better.

00:14:40.437 --> 00:14:44.787
I really enjoyed the plot line, although I didn't understand Team Mwa at the time.

00:14:44.876 --> 00:14:49.917
I understood more team magma, but that's just because I didn't get the whole political side of it within Japan.

00:14:50.246 --> 00:14:53.547
But I felt more complete, more at home when it came to Gen three.

00:14:53.966 --> 00:15:02.157
Gen three is interesting'cause Gen three was the first time they decided to tackle a big world question of environmentalism.

00:15:02.846 --> 00:15:10.660
But Pokemon has this terrible history of asking a big question and not having an answer for it.

00:15:11.140 --> 00:15:14.500
'cause we don't have an like, we don't have, have an answer for environmentalism,

00:15:14.760 --> 00:15:15.181
Mm-hmm.

00:15:15.941 --> 00:15:17.956
their general answer is like, well, what do you do about.

00:15:18.283 --> 00:15:23.173
Needing more water or needing more land, like this is an environmental impact, it doesn't matter.

00:15:23.173 --> 00:15:27.884
Just defeat the, just defeat the bad guys and never think about it again.

00:15:28.014 --> 00:15:32.303
Like it is their solution of just defeat the bad guy and you don't have to think about it.

00:15:32.609 --> 00:15:45.833
I, I think it's one of the problems they have, like, I applaud you for asking big questions, but you know, maybe have a better answer, but like, they're a conservative company, they're not going to give a very controversial answer.

00:15:46.073 --> 00:15:46.423
right.

00:15:46.494 --> 00:15:49.764
gonna be like, well just beat up the bad guy and don't think about it.

00:15:50.208 --> 00:15:51.229
When it comes to gen three.

00:15:51.556 --> 00:15:53.025
I guess, what are some of your favorite parts?

00:15:53.025 --> 00:15:57.046
I know you said, like I said, they ask star giants questions, but they don't answer'em, and we see that more and more.

00:15:57.255 --> 00:15:59.596
But what about just Gen three specifically, since that's your favorite?

00:16:00.270 --> 00:16:02.971
they were very deliberate about.

00:16:02.971 --> 00:16:05.910
How they wanted to make games going forward.

00:16:05.910 --> 00:16:12.163
So Gen three gives us double battles, which becomes the standard for pretty much everything they do going forward, right?

00:16:12.163 --> 00:16:17.173
Like double battles become the thing that they use for VGC for a million things.

00:16:17.504 --> 00:16:21.571
they were also willing to say, we are going to start over.

00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:27.421
Like there are no, it is a whole new polka dex except for the few things that you get in, in the safari zone.

00:16:27.691 --> 00:16:29.760
You are not getting into the old stuff.

00:16:29.941 --> 00:16:32.941
You are starting over in a brand new region

00:16:33.030 --> 00:16:34.176
the first Dex exit.

00:16:34.176 --> 00:16:34.456
Yeah.

00:16:34.951 --> 00:16:35.850
everything new.

00:16:35.880 --> 00:16:37.951
You have never seen these things before.

00:16:38.317 --> 00:16:39.667
they really did.

00:16:39.756 --> 00:16:45.606
And I mean it's important to the story that you're half on land and half on water.

00:16:45.966 --> 00:16:52.096
Like they are tying the land to the story that you're being told there is not enough land.

00:16:52.981 --> 00:17:01.535
There is not enough water and you are forced to deal with the two sides of this island structure of, okay.

00:17:01.655 --> 00:17:07.776
Like one group is literally you run outta land and now you're on the water and you're like, okay, well there's also too much water.

00:17:07.776 --> 00:17:11.808
So what is going, like, they really did try to do something there.

00:17:11.808 --> 00:17:44.179
They really tried to create two very unique, interesting, nuanced, I mean they only could do so much, but like the philosophies of aqua and magma, both sort of wanting the same thing but really coming at it at two different ways and depending on which game you played, you were getting one or the other perspective, like they really did a lot of really interesting things with just sort of expanding the world, getting deliberate about their design, getting deliberate about the Pokemon that they are going to include in a region.

00:17:44.686 --> 00:17:57.913
While it is far from a perfect game, although I think Emerald is probably one of the best in the series, you can tell that they were beginning to think, oh, okay, so what is this series going to be in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years?

00:17:58.304 --> 00:18:01.844
What are we putting as the roots to build off of?

00:18:01.844 --> 00:18:04.394
And I think you can really feel that in gen three.

00:18:05.328 --> 00:18:08.388
And a lot of stuff that we did in gen three still exist today.

00:18:08.449 --> 00:18:10.098
They solidified the items.

00:18:10.098 --> 00:18:11.989
There's no longer PRZ berry.

00:18:11.989 --> 00:18:14.868
There's, you know, lum berries, cherry berries, and all this.

00:18:14.959 --> 00:18:19.098
You've got double bowels, you alluded to, and you've got this whole idea of.

00:18:19.753 --> 00:18:21.403
They start asking bigger questions.

00:18:21.403 --> 00:18:23.263
Now how they answer those of courses differently?

00:18:24.013 --> 00:18:25.453
I think they try to come to middle ground.

00:18:25.453 --> 00:18:30.074
'cause you think of, I think it's called Pacific Log to where I think they build the bridges on top of the sea.

00:18:30.074 --> 00:18:36.163
Kind of maybe leaning towards like, oh you can still kind of build on top of the sea despite you not really needing land.

00:18:36.493 --> 00:18:38.953
And then you got the top of the city, which is built inside of a crater.

00:18:39.068 --> 00:18:39.358
Yeah.

00:18:39.374 --> 00:18:41.834
And I think they kind of try to address the answer that way.

00:18:41.834 --> 00:18:45.344
Just it's not as clear because it's, some of it's, yeah, it's just not as clear.

00:18:45.703 --> 00:18:48.614
And you know, like I said, you, you said you saw Pokemon's not gonna be that

00:18:48.773 --> 00:18:49.193
Mm-hmm.

00:18:49.784 --> 00:18:50.564
like this.

00:18:50.564 --> 00:18:52.903
The answer, this has gotta be way for, that's just not who they Yeah.

00:18:52.903 --> 00:18:53.384
Always been.

00:18:53.384 --> 00:18:56.181
But sometimes it leaves stuff like this very nuanced.

00:18:56.601 --> 00:19:04.820
The one that always comes to mind for me is of course black and white to where they ask actually a very good question of are we kind of a enslaving these Pokemon?

00:19:04.820 --> 00:19:09.443
Or in some ways are we having these Pokemon, you know, they should be free kind of thing.

00:19:09.443 --> 00:19:11.574
And they don't really double down on it.

00:19:11.648 --> 00:19:17.961
it's really, they really had a chance to answer it it's not a difficult answer to come to.

00:19:18.291 --> 00:19:24.239
I think a lot of people sort of, if you look at the capture mechanics and how they actually.

00:19:24.239 --> 00:19:28.378
Sort of present to you this works.

00:19:28.949 --> 00:19:42.692
Like the biggest clue, that answers that question is you cannot capture something that has been knocked out because they have to be conscious to agree to enter the pact, right?

00:19:42.872 --> 00:19:47.311
Like that is a huge part of how that ga that they don't ever really say.

00:19:47.311 --> 00:20:01.721
But if you look at the game mechanics and understand, they are clearly saying the creature has to be awake and aware to be willing to agree to being captured, to being a part of this team.

00:20:01.932 --> 00:20:05.291
That if you knock them out, they are no longer available to you.

00:20:05.622 --> 00:20:06.791
They cannot.

00:20:07.436 --> 00:20:10.406
Agree become part of this team.

00:20:10.406 --> 00:20:13.886
Like it is an important, it is a thing that's been a part of that game that entire time.

00:20:13.977 --> 00:20:21.146
And they walked up to that doorstep and then just walked away said, well just go beat him up.

00:20:21.422 --> 00:20:21.711
Yeah.

00:20:21.926 --> 00:20:25.527
And then again, just beat up the bad guy and we don't have to think about it.

00:20:25.586 --> 00:20:32.426
And I think game plays with the idea of people wondering, am I really not in a good relationship with this thing?

00:20:32.457 --> 00:20:45.181
And the interesting is they give you so many examples of how it is a mutual re relationship, but they never really offer an answer like n being able to pull Pokemon.

00:20:45.270 --> 00:20:52.871
Like if you watch how N progresses through those teams, every time you fight him, he's fighting with Pokemon from the areas that you're in.

00:20:52.901 --> 00:20:53.111
His

00:20:53.141 --> 00:20:53.530
Mm-hmm.

00:20:53.832 --> 00:21:03.378
Stay consistent because he is pulling on that relationship of things that trust him will fight for him because he can speak to them and then they, and then they're set free.

00:21:03.439 --> 00:21:08.028
He doesn't believe philosophically in forming a permanent attachment.

00:21:08.449 --> 00:21:16.548
And through that time, he is also commenting on the bond you have with your captured Pokemon, the level of trust.

00:21:16.548 --> 00:21:21.036
And they keep, they walk up to the door and just refuse to open it.

00:21:21.036 --> 00:21:25.506
And that's part of the thing where I'm like, it, it, it, all the pieces are there.

00:21:25.865 --> 00:21:30.648
Just be bold and make the statement, just say, this is how it is.

00:21:31.078 --> 00:21:36.659
And I mean, it's not that controversial statement'cause that's really what Pokemon's built on is that relationship.

00:21:36.659 --> 00:21:40.558
So it makes no sense for that, at least to not be kind of doubled down.

00:21:40.558 --> 00:21:42.358
Like, no, you aren't slave in Pokemon.

00:21:42.719 --> 00:21:43.558
We're working together.

00:21:43.558 --> 00:21:44.338
And then, I don't know.

00:21:44.398 --> 00:21:49.318
That's been something that, it's one of the few critiques, but that's something you have to kind of dig deep and really think about.

00:21:49.318 --> 00:21:50.848
That's bugged me when it comes to black and white.

00:21:50.848 --> 00:21:52.229
Love the games, love the story.

00:21:52.229 --> 00:21:52.588
But

00:21:52.634 --> 00:21:53.054
great.

00:21:53.189 --> 00:21:53.459
yeah,

00:21:53.931 --> 00:22:07.467
but yeah, they, again, they are just, they are afraid to, put answers in stone and that, that has always been a thing that I'm like, just come on, just please just answer one of your questions.

00:22:07.991 --> 00:22:10.872
we never found out who Ash's dad is, and I'm still winning to this day.

00:22:11.457 --> 00:22:20.510
I mean, the funny thing about like the first games is they are clearly commenting on the devastation of World War ii, right?

00:22:20.510 --> 00:22:25.611
Like, this is a post World War ii, world surge is from America who talked in the war.

00:22:25.951 --> 00:22:29.221
you know, it is definitely Japan's missing generation.

00:22:29.221 --> 00:22:35.191
Like you can talk about it, like how devastating, like a lot of kids didn't have parents because.

00:22:35.388 --> 00:22:43.128
The effects of, of war took out a generation like they, again, they hint to it and it is very much a part of their culture.

00:22:43.249 --> 00:22:45.348
They just won't answer that question.

00:22:45.348 --> 00:22:49.808
Like, yeah, Ash's dad probably didn't survive

00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:53.259
The, maybe he really did go on a journey and

00:22:53.259 --> 00:22:56.618
Japanese people didn't survive post World War ii.

00:22:57.249 --> 00:22:57.469
mm

00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.118
We did, we did a bad, we did a bad there.

00:23:02.108 --> 00:23:03.023
just a little bit.

00:23:03.068 --> 00:23:03.818
A little bad.

00:23:42.604 --> 00:23:44.703
Let's ask like, what's, what Pokemon do you like?

00:23:44.703 --> 00:23:45.423
What's your favorite?

00:23:45.423 --> 00:23:46.144
Let's start there.

00:23:46.233 --> 00:23:48.753
Oh, my favorite is Rosalea forever,

00:23:49.230 --> 00:23:49.589
Why rose?

00:23:50.634 --> 00:23:53.993
so when I saw it in gen three, it was.

00:23:54.058 --> 00:23:57.689
Everything that I think makes a good Pokemon design.

00:23:58.618 --> 00:23:59.818
It's expressive.

00:23:59.878 --> 00:24:01.919
It immediately had a personality.

00:24:02.278 --> 00:24:06.598
It looks like a creature that fits into nature.

00:24:06.598 --> 00:24:11.818
It has a very natural feel, but still has a lot of expression to it.

00:24:12.199 --> 00:24:16.398
I don't necessarily agree with the typing'cause I think there's way too many poison grass types.

00:24:16.398 --> 00:24:23.132
but I think they really sort of hit what I think is, makes a good Pokemon design.

00:24:23.521 --> 00:24:34.211
Something that feels like it is part of a natural world, like these little forces of nature that slide like Pikachu being an electric mouse.

00:24:34.271 --> 00:24:39.132
Like it is a mouse that feeds on electricity, like it feels like an outcropping of the natural world.

00:24:39.132 --> 00:24:41.862
And Rose really felt that same way to me.

00:24:41.862 --> 00:24:44.201
Plus I just think it has personality for days.

00:24:44.321 --> 00:24:45.162
Like it's just.

00:24:45.670 --> 00:24:52.480
It's got so much expression in its face for how basic its face is, and they can do so much with it.

00:24:52.525 --> 00:24:52.944
Mm-hmm.

00:24:52.990 --> 00:24:55.779
Um, particularly in the Colosseum and

00:24:55.789 --> 00:24:57.380
Yes, I was about to say.

00:24:57.380 --> 00:24:57.500
So

00:24:57.759 --> 00:24:59.589
1000% was my favorite.

00:24:59.589 --> 00:25:00.309
Yeah, I love it.

00:25:00.589 --> 00:25:00.740
yeah.

00:25:00.740 --> 00:25:01.099
What is that?

00:25:01.099 --> 00:25:04.400
I think it's when it gets attacked, it has its roses on the hips and it just goes like,

00:25:04.660 --> 00:25:08.079
falls back and then gets mad on its and saunters forth.

00:25:08.710 --> 00:25:10.089
Pure genius.

00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:11.140
Love it.

00:25:11.634 --> 00:25:12.503
One that I always think of.

00:25:12.503 --> 00:25:13.253
It's more recent.

00:25:13.284 --> 00:25:15.054
Flamingo is one of my favorites.

00:25:15.269 --> 00:25:15.328
It

00:25:15.344 --> 00:25:15.794
great.

00:25:15.838 --> 00:25:20.489
is so simple, but it has so much depth to it to where it's a fighting symbol and it's a flight.

00:25:20.489 --> 00:25:23.219
It's a fighting bird, and I just love it to death.

00:25:23.582 --> 00:25:24.092
Oh my gosh.

00:25:24.257 --> 00:25:25.156
like a giant foot.

00:25:29.011 --> 00:25:30.182
What about the evolution?

00:25:30.362 --> 00:25:32.011
What about gen four with the rosary?

00:25:32.071 --> 00:25:34.531
You know, you got Badu and then it got the evolution with rosary.

00:25:34.531 --> 00:25:37.652
Do you still have that kind of same fondness, or did it not get to you as much?

00:25:38.132 --> 00:25:38.672
line.

00:25:38.821 --> 00:25:48.234
I think the thing that keeps me from really loving Rose raid they made the choice to not make the pou kts detailed.

00:25:49.015 --> 00:25:49.525
If you look

00:25:49.555 --> 00:25:49.704
Mm.

00:25:49.914 --> 00:25:55.375
they are very plain and they are very abstract in a lot of ways.

00:25:55.434 --> 00:26:02.679
So you, so, so you went from a really detailed flower to a very abstract bouquet shape.

00:26:02.739 --> 00:26:04.868
And I, I don't enjoy it.

00:26:04.959 --> 00:26:13.568
I think it was a misstep if they had just added a few more lines of detail to actually show that their flowers, I think I would like it more.

00:26:14.009 --> 00:26:25.164
I mean, I still really love the line, but me from it from being in my top 10 because I just think they really just weren't intentional with that part of the design.

00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:28.430
I know you love the role playing aspect, you love the story.

00:26:28.430 --> 00:26:33.890
You mentioned gen three after, you know, gen four and beyond, like what are some of, what's another story that you enjoyed?

00:26:34.355 --> 00:26:41.045
Um, I think the best story in all of the games is the story of Sunden Moon.

00:26:41.497 --> 00:26:47.740
I think they really told a generation of kids who grew up.

00:26:48.234 --> 00:26:54.967
Playing these games, Hey, maybe your parents weren't great and you should probably go to therapy to talk about it.

00:26:57.876 --> 00:27:04.200
Um, because they really tackled an incredibly important family dynamic.

00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.665
Like how do you deal with family trauma?

00:27:08.236 --> 00:27:08.566
Mm-hmm.

00:27:08.836 --> 00:27:10.306
with a narcissistic parent?

00:27:10.665 --> 00:27:27.625
and also showing a group of new parents like this is a game that isn't a generation where they'd be introducing this to their kids and they're playing it together and they're being confronted with, here's the damage that can be done through parenting to children.

00:27:28.165 --> 00:27:36.056
Here is sort of the responsibility that you now have as the next generation, as you're introducing your kids to these games.

00:27:36.986 --> 00:27:42.806
Look at the effect that parents have on children and maybe examine and.

00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:45.960
What you're doing how you are.

00:27:46.769 --> 00:27:58.140
And think about the weird, about family dynamics, think about how kids grow, think about all these things and inde what independence for kids means.

00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:08.970
Like this is a really small contain story of here's family dynamics set against, again, a universe that's sort of out of control.

00:28:08.970 --> 00:28:16.618
But again, that's saying you are parents in a chaotic world where very bad things are happening here.

00:28:16.618 --> 00:28:18.058
Let's talk about your responsibility.

00:28:18.058 --> 00:28:23.068
Like so many parental bonds are represented in those games.

00:28:23.308 --> 00:28:25.888
Some of them are really good and some of'em are broken.

00:28:25.888 --> 00:28:31.378
Like are so many ways they comment on family in that game.

00:28:31.378 --> 00:28:36.179
And I think it's really a great view into.

00:28:36.211 --> 00:28:43.172
Kids and parents, the damage that they do to each other, how they work through that, how you can work through that.

00:28:43.172 --> 00:28:44.132
What are good examples?

00:28:44.251 --> 00:28:51.422
I just think it's a really brilliantly done story set in sort of this fantastical, oversized world.

00:28:52.087 --> 00:29:01.178
And I think that's kind of going to show that on your point, I think about, you know, when I grew up, my dad was more the old school.

00:29:01.538 --> 00:29:05.678
Macho, you don't play kitty stuff kind of game, but that's just the time period he grew on.

00:29:06.218 --> 00:29:09.458
Now you've got people who are becoming parents who grew up with Pokemon.

00:29:10.238 --> 00:29:17.948
How do you approach that question to where, how do you engage with your, kids in that way to where you say like, this is what happens.

00:29:17.948 --> 00:29:25.448
Like you said, if you don't have the right role model, this is what happens when you've got somebody who doesn't have your best interest in the child.

00:29:25.448 --> 00:29:34.478
'cause that happens so much, and like you said, it points to like try to be something different, try to be something that's better and hopefully leave a better lasting impression,

00:29:34.883 --> 00:29:35.990
Yeah, those

00:29:36.005 --> 00:29:36.244
but

00:29:36.259 --> 00:29:36.799
brilliant.

00:29:37.289 --> 00:29:37.710
mm-hmm.

00:29:37.910 --> 00:29:45.170
just, I just think they re and the, and the problem is, is they sort of ruined the story and Alt Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are better games,

00:29:45.210 --> 00:29:45.630
Mm-hmm.

00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:46.640
is way worse.

00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:53.532
They really stepped away from, of how really bad loosening is in Sun and Moon.

00:29:53.532 --> 00:30:00.429
They really sort of try to give her more justification for how she is, which is like, you didn't really, you didn't need it.

00:30:00.578 --> 00:30:03.729
Like you could have kept the story the same.

00:30:03.763 --> 00:30:10.088
It, it, it is an important story that I think they really felt like maybe we sort of stepped on parents to a little bit too hard.

00:30:10.088 --> 00:30:12.038
We'll back off a, the adult ultrasound ultra moon.

00:30:12.729 --> 00:30:16.092
Um, but I, I do think it is very.

00:30:16.330 --> 00:30:24.671
Good and intentional when they take time to think about who their entire audience is and how they wanna speak to them.

00:30:24.671 --> 00:30:29.560
And I think Sun and Moon is a prime example of considering kids and adults playing that game.

00:30:30.010 --> 00:30:36.941
Now around that time, there was actually a mobile game that I heard was very popular and I wanted to know, it's called Pokemon Go.

00:30:36.941 --> 00:30:37.570
I think you've heard it.

00:30:37.570 --> 00:30:38.080
Maybe.

00:30:39.161 --> 00:30:40.691
How was that, whenever it came out?

00:30:40.691 --> 00:30:41.681
Were you kind of involved?

00:30:41.681 --> 00:30:43.181
Like how deep did you get into that game?

00:30:43.300 --> 00:30:52.816
I mean, it was, first year of Pokemon Go was phenomenal and super exciting, even though the game didn't work very well, like it would have a map.

00:30:52.816 --> 00:30:57.174
It's like there's a Pokemon two feet away and you'd go there and like nothing.

00:30:57.894 --> 00:31:00.684
No, there's not, there's nothing here.

00:31:01.164 --> 00:31:08.705
It was super, super exciting because the promise of the game could be felt endless.

00:31:08.736 --> 00:31:09.096
Right?

00:31:09.125 --> 00:31:15.336
Like you really felt like this is, I am taking these things on a journey with me.

00:31:15.665 --> 00:31:22.596
I am longer in a solitary, in-house personal game.

00:31:22.596 --> 00:31:34.175
I am walking out in the world and finding other people who are also walking out in the world, who are the joy of Pokemon in a very communal way.

00:31:34.746 --> 00:31:37.355
Um, and I think it was so exciting.

00:31:37.355 --> 00:31:38.405
It was so fun.

00:31:38.531 --> 00:31:43.481
when you didn't know how the game really worked and you'd run into people and you're like, okay, there's something down here.

00:31:43.481 --> 00:31:44.652
I just, I just ran into it.

00:31:44.652 --> 00:31:45.311
Let's go down here.

00:31:45.311 --> 00:31:46.152
It was on this corner.

00:31:46.152 --> 00:31:47.682
And you'd go to that corner and try to find it.

00:31:47.682 --> 00:31:49.362
And then of course the map wasn't working.

00:31:49.362 --> 00:31:50.801
You're like, okay, well it's not working.

00:31:50.801 --> 00:31:52.692
Or my game just locked up and froze.

00:31:52.692 --> 00:31:53.051
So,

00:31:53.392 --> 00:31:53.711
Yeah,

00:31:53.741 --> 00:31:56.071
oh well, It was super fun.

00:31:56.071 --> 00:31:57.392
It was super exciting.

00:31:57.781 --> 00:32:00.001
yeah, I had a lot of fond memories about that summer.

00:32:00.031 --> 00:32:07.531
Uh, it's, it was also everybody sort of knew up here in the northern states that this was a limited, this is a limited thing.

00:32:07.531 --> 00:32:10.951
'cause it was soon to going to be very hard to walk outside.

00:32:11.821 --> 00:32:16.622
it's like when it gets to be negative 60 up here, I'm like, I'm not, not going out there.

00:32:16.652 --> 00:32:17.701
I'm not, I'm

00:32:17.777 --> 00:32:18.017
but,

00:32:18.481 --> 00:32:19.352
down the block.

00:32:19.457 --> 00:32:20.926
you're supposed to travel the lands, Greg.

00:32:20.926 --> 00:32:22.457
You're supposed to like get out there and you're

00:32:23.071 --> 00:32:25.112
The lands are trying to kill me right now.

00:32:25.142 --> 00:32:26.162
No, thank you.

00:32:26.251 --> 00:32:27.271
Uh, I'm out.

00:32:27.961 --> 00:32:29.132
I'm gonna sit in here

00:32:29.866 --> 00:32:30.616
in the heater.

00:32:30.991 --> 00:32:32.311
and where it's warm.

00:32:32.402 --> 00:32:42.613
Uh, and then like the cracks began to show like, people in rural areas were having real hard time with the game because without people they wouldn't spawn.

00:32:42.955 --> 00:32:47.330
things spawned more in cities and not in parks and nature, which sort of felt like.

00:32:48.391 --> 00:32:48.681
Yeah.

00:32:48.701 --> 00:32:50.621
not how this game is supposed to work.

00:32:50.621 --> 00:32:55.480
Like these are, like when you're in cities in the game, there aren't Pokemon around.

00:32:55.480 --> 00:32:59.080
Then you go out into the grass and there are, and it's very different and go.

00:32:59.361 --> 00:32:59.601
Mm-hmm.

00:32:59.651 --> 00:33:10.421
for that first year, I think it was just super, super exciting just to have, a cultural phenomenon to have so many people all excited about this one thing and we all got to share in it.

00:33:10.421 --> 00:33:12.851
Like, I'll never forget that first year.

00:33:12.971 --> 00:33:15.701
It was just a super, it was just super fun.

00:33:16.241 --> 00:33:20.085
And that's always been something that's bugged me with Pokemon Go, like your example.

00:33:20.085 --> 00:33:21.704
I've always wished that it was more nature.

00:33:21.704 --> 00:33:24.674
I wish Pokemon you had to go out and search for in that way.

00:33:25.049 --> 00:33:29.130
But if you know you go to a parking lot, that's where the best way to catch Pokemon is.

00:33:29.130 --> 00:33:34.500
It's so counterintuitive and it ruins the idea of what Pokemon Go was built on,

00:33:34.650 --> 00:33:34.920
Yeah.

00:33:35.130 --> 00:33:41.160
you can travel around and catch random Pokemon and I don't know that I didn't catch it right away.

00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:42.119
It took me a couple years.

00:33:42.450 --> 00:33:48.269
I was more addicted to it, but slowly became more of what is Pokemon Go really about.

00:33:48.299 --> 00:33:53.970
It just seemed like it's more of just getting people this one location for an event and that's it.

00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:57.169
And it's slowly has become, that's all the game has become.

00:33:57.169 --> 00:33:59.298
It's been a shell of what it's formed self, in my opinion.

00:33:59.644 --> 00:34:05.104
I mean, it, it is, its former self, that's, that's sort of the problem.

00:34:05.631 --> 00:34:12.231
and it fundamentally hasn't It is the same game we had in 2016.

00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:22.851
They've added a few more things, but ultimately it's the same game has the same mechanics that ask you to do the same things.

00:34:24.585 --> 00:34:31.275
As they are now pushing more of the games and it's like a limited polka deck and you should catch all these things and we give you special things.

00:34:32.385 --> 00:34:38.391
The catching of things in that game no longer feels unique or surprising.

00:34:38.391 --> 00:34:45.201
Like we know all the Pokemon exist, like we know what you're putting in your game and we know how you're gonna drip feed them.

00:34:45.690 --> 00:34:47.971
like I still play the game on and off.

00:34:48.010 --> 00:34:48.431
Mm-hmm.

00:34:48.601 --> 00:34:59.817
you know, I still interact with Pokemon stuff, but, I don't know what their future needs to look like to really breathe a lot of life back into the game.

00:35:00.652 --> 00:35:05.512
it's an old game, like it is by most standards for most people.

00:35:05.693 --> 00:35:06.983
An ancient game.

00:35:07.668 --> 00:35:08.059
Take it this way.

00:35:08.297 --> 00:35:13.248
Imagine if you played Pokemon Red Balloon yellow for years, like eventually, as much as we love Gen one,

00:35:13.862 --> 00:35:26.853
we have been playing those games for 30 years and I if, if we get another Canto game for the 30th, which I know we're going to, and I know I'm gonna buy it, I'm just gonna be mad about it because I'm so tired of going to Canto.

00:35:27.213 --> 00:35:30.123
I have been to Canto so many times now.

00:35:30.123 --> 00:35:30.123
No,

00:35:30.228 --> 00:35:30.677
right.

00:35:31.014 --> 00:35:32.934
I've always said, we're gonna get a cantos legends game.

00:35:32.934 --> 00:35:34.855
That's what we're gonna get into the 30th anniversary.

00:35:35.605 --> 00:35:37.675
no, no.

00:35:37.675 --> 00:35:38.514
I don't want it.

00:35:38.574 --> 00:35:45.561
I don't want, I would be, actually, I would be happy with a sequel or a Prequel to canto something that's not the same game.

00:35:45.831 --> 00:35:51.802
Like if we get a sequel, like, here is Canto, 30 years later, would 100% go back to

00:35:52.041 --> 00:35:52.972
Oh, so you don't mind that?

00:35:52.972 --> 00:35:54.771
You just don't want to see a rehash of the

00:35:55.161 --> 00:35:57.141
play that game again.

00:35:57.172 --> 00:35:58.101
I have played it.

00:35:58.192 --> 00:35:59.331
I played the first ones.

00:35:59.331 --> 00:36:01.012
I played Fire, red Leaf Green.

00:36:01.222 --> 00:36:03.802
I have played, let's Go Pikachu and Evie.

00:36:04.012 --> 00:36:05.452
I had to play through it.

00:36:05.751 --> 00:36:12.472
Every time I've played gen two, I have to go back to that region and do it all over again with no changes.

00:36:12.952 --> 00:36:15.891
I have played the death out of that original game.

00:36:15.891 --> 00:36:17.422
I want something new.

00:36:18.184 --> 00:36:18.963
Greg's going off.

00:36:18.969 --> 00:36:19.384
I love it.

00:36:23.884 --> 00:36:27.664
I know that I had a chance to meet you briefly at Go Fest, New York City,

00:36:27.789 --> 00:36:28.009
Yep.

00:36:28.264 --> 00:36:32.554
and I want to ask, so like, is that the only, I'm sure you've been to other live events for Pokemon.

00:36:32.884 --> 00:36:35.998
What are some of the other ones you've gone to and what has it been like to go to those?

00:36:36.456 --> 00:36:39.240
so I, again, having come to an adult.

00:36:39.556 --> 00:36:41.925
For this series, I had money to travel.

00:36:41.925 --> 00:36:44.536
Things I've done, I did all the mall tours.

00:36:45.030 --> 00:36:45.990
Oh, wow.

00:36:46.576 --> 00:36:48.166
I went to the one that was the Mall of America.

00:36:48.166 --> 00:36:50.925
I've done all the mall tours to go there and play.

00:36:50.925 --> 00:36:57.293
And so mal tours were important'cause like, there was a bug in Ruby and Sapphire.

00:36:57.744 --> 00:36:58.914
There's no internet, right?

00:36:58.914 --> 00:37:00.474
Like you can't download a patch,

00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:01.028
Right.

00:37:01.074 --> 00:37:02.034
you had to go.

00:37:02.034 --> 00:37:06.353
So I went to there to get my game patch so it would work properly.

00:37:06.773 --> 00:37:15.054
Um, and then just being around a bunch of people again, it's was awkward at that time'cause it was still early in the series and it was still very much a kid series.

00:37:15.264 --> 00:37:25.253
So being an adult at this place without children of my own, like, you'd have to find the other adults around your age and be like, okay, we're just all playing this game and we're

00:37:25.353 --> 00:37:25.583
Yeah.

00:37:25.853 --> 00:37:28.554
And like, they didn't have divisions of tournaments then.

00:37:28.554 --> 00:37:30.173
So if you were gonna do VGC.

00:37:31.208 --> 00:37:35.349
You were like, hi, I am 30 and my opponent is 12.

00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.139
this is not how this should be working.

00:37:38.469 --> 00:37:40.179
This is not cool people.

00:37:40.740 --> 00:37:41.880
but, but they were super fun.

00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:47.831
Like they are really invested, I think, in trying to build a solid community.

00:37:48.521 --> 00:38:08.382
And those events were a way in the very beginning to sort of find other people like you from around the world when we didn't really have an easy way to communicate with each other and just sort of buy merch and just be immersed in the world that they're creating and just have fun with it and be like, this is just a dumb thing I do for fun.

00:38:08.592 --> 00:38:15.641
And I'm here to look at all the fun things and take pictures and just sort of play these games in a communal environment and enjoy it.

00:38:16.166 --> 00:38:17.927
so yeah, I've done all the mall tours.

00:38:17.927 --> 00:38:19.577
I've done a lot of the go fests.

00:38:19.577 --> 00:38:21.047
I've done Chicago's and.

00:38:21.382 --> 00:38:27.893
I have never done a world I need to, worlds always falls at a really awkward time where I'm like, I can't make that work.

00:38:27.922 --> 00:38:31.132
'cause I have a nine to five job and I only have so much vacation

00:38:31.137 --> 00:38:31.335
Right.

00:38:31.335 --> 00:38:32.476
this is problematic.

00:38:32.476 --> 00:38:34.871
like to have money to come in so I can keep doing this stuff future.

00:38:34.971 --> 00:38:35.710
So it's kind of important.

00:38:35.710 --> 00:38:35.990
Yeah.

00:38:36.465 --> 00:38:39.465
funds and vacation time to be able to do these things.

00:38:39.465 --> 00:38:46.952
So, but I've done some of the minor regionals I've done, I've kind of visited because I just enjoy meeting the community.

00:38:47.402 --> 00:38:53.222
Um, it's fun to meet people who would, who listen to the show and meet them and just talk to them.

00:38:53.222 --> 00:38:55.561
Like actually connect with people who.

00:38:55.744 --> 00:39:18.826
Have heard my voice, but we've never met, like, you know me more than I've ha I have no clue who you people are, but I have been in your ears for a long time, and so it's fun to be able to meet people who have listened to things that I've done and and just have a chance to have it other way for a change to actually have a conversation instead of a one-way talk.

00:39:19.427 --> 00:39:19.907
that makes sense.

00:39:19.907 --> 00:39:21.347
'cause that's what I've always enjoyed about.

00:39:21.527 --> 00:39:23.057
'cause unfortunately I never got a chance to do the malls.

00:39:23.057 --> 00:39:30.347
My first Pokemon event was going to go fest and then I started going to regionals and it's just so much fun to be around people who love Pokemon just as much as you are.

00:39:30.378 --> 00:39:35.987
'cause if you're shelling money out for this event, no matter what it is, you're a diehard Pokemon fan to some degree.

00:39:36.197 --> 00:39:36.557
a fan.

00:39:36.648 --> 00:39:37.338
Yeah, you're a fan.

00:39:37.518 --> 00:39:39.438
And it's just such a unique experience.

00:39:39.438 --> 00:39:41.958
So I've always loved going to'em, love meeting the people.

00:39:42.137 --> 00:39:44.748
The Pokemon's almost kind of second nature to a way, so,

00:39:44.807 --> 00:39:44.987
yeah.

00:39:45.228 --> 00:39:45.588
yeah.

00:39:46.032 --> 00:39:51.643
It's the foundation upon everything else is being built, all the interactions, everything.

00:39:51.643 --> 00:39:55.302
You have a common language and then you're branching out from there.

00:39:55.302 --> 00:39:57.163
And I, I always, I've always enjoyed it.

00:39:57.617 --> 00:40:07.487
One thing I kind of want to ask you, I know originally your interested with Pokemon started'cause you really loved RPGs and obviously, you know, Pokemon is an RPG game to where you know you got to explore the world.

00:40:07.487 --> 00:40:07.547
I.

00:40:07.922 --> 00:40:15.242
What is it about rpg just in general that kind of entices you, not just even just on a Pokemon, but just on a regular level compared to other types of games?

00:40:15.797 --> 00:40:19.141
So RPGs are, like an interactive novel.

00:40:19.621 --> 00:40:21.961
The good ones are telling you a story.

00:40:22.442 --> 00:40:29.342
The good ones are making you think about the world in new and interesting ways.

00:40:29.731 --> 00:40:56.490
The good ones are telling you things In a very interactive, personal way where you are sort of like confronted with somebody else's ideologies and are working through both mentally what they're telling you, but also like I am making choices and my choices are affecting this world, and what does that mean in this frame of this world that I've found myself in?

00:40:56.871 --> 00:41:09.530
they are a great way to engage a new audience and tell new stories to, we as a species thrive on stories.

00:41:09.530 --> 00:41:12.050
We learn about each other through stories.

00:41:12.351 --> 00:41:21.231
We can get other viewpoints and get a sense of what it's like to experience them stories and role-playing games.

00:41:22.190 --> 00:41:26.793
The ones that really do that well, really can expand your.

00:41:27.722 --> 00:41:37.617
Understanding of the world around you and build in ideas that you can sort of sit with and think, is this something that I'm accepting of?

00:41:37.617 --> 00:41:38.878
Am I resisting this?

00:41:38.878 --> 00:41:40.228
Why am I resisting?

00:41:40.434 --> 00:41:41.574
what is happening here?

00:41:41.605 --> 00:41:43.405
Why do I feel uncomfortable?

00:41:43.434 --> 00:41:45.235
Why do I have to make this choice?

00:41:45.594 --> 00:41:53.030
I think you can really learn a lot through RPGs that you don't get with like a platformer.

00:41:53.150 --> 00:41:58.722
Like, I don't care why Mario's jumping a couple of mushrooms, and then I get to the end.

00:41:58.722 --> 00:42:01.512
And of course the princess isn't there because the game has to continue.

00:42:01.512 --> 00:42:05.217
Like there's nothing there other than a skill check, right?

00:42:05.217 --> 00:42:05.518
Like

00:42:05.728 --> 00:42:06.088
Mm-hmm.

00:42:06.302 --> 00:42:07.018
just a skill check.

00:42:07.018 --> 00:42:08.248
That's a dexterity game.

00:42:08.248 --> 00:42:10.257
That's me figuring out patterns.

00:42:10.467 --> 00:42:14.010
I'm not sort of being confronted with much.

00:42:14.505 --> 00:42:30.110
In my own story or in my own life where role-playing games and in general really do have that component of you are stepping into a role and you are being put through a series of things and it's going to leave you with something at the end.

00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:38.755
It kind of reminds me of there's some, like I say, I call it quick card and art that makes you kind of think a bit, A lot of people prefer the former.

00:42:39.646 --> 00:42:40.815
And they just enjoy it.

00:42:40.815 --> 00:42:43.755
Like maybe it's just a catchy tune or maybe it's just very shallow.

00:42:43.755 --> 00:42:49.965
Like, like you said, once you do it, it's more skills beyond just like telling a story, telling kind of a message in a way.

00:42:50.596 --> 00:42:53.326
And it's fun for a bit, but eventually that stuff kind of gets old.

00:42:53.416 --> 00:42:54.885
It goes very fast.

00:42:55.365 --> 00:43:01.215
But when you talk about story stuff, it challenges your view in a way to where you have to think about it a little bit.

00:43:01.215 --> 00:43:07.036
You have to really kind of chew on what this video or what the game or the source the media is telling you.

00:43:07.456 --> 00:43:09.135
And it's like, do I, what do I think about this?

00:43:09.135 --> 00:43:12.945
What is it that I like and what do I dislike and what do I agree and disagree?

00:43:13.186 --> 00:43:14.565
And you can keep going back to it.

00:43:14.565 --> 00:43:30.376
I think that's what makes Pokemon so great is that that's why we keep going back because you get to kind of relive it and from a fresher eyes, even as you get older, to where the story that I may have related to in let's say gen two or Gen one doesn't meet up to what I thought it used to be.

00:43:30.376 --> 00:43:33.945
As I grow older and sometimes you miss things and you point things out as you mature.

00:43:35.226 --> 00:43:38.525
You also, do you have experience?

00:43:38.556 --> 00:43:43.041
Like you will look at things and be like, okay, that's, no they wouldn't.

00:43:43.041 --> 00:43:43.972
Why are they doing that?

00:43:43.972 --> 00:43:46.731
That doesn't make, why would they make that choice?

00:43:46.927 --> 00:43:47.347
Mm-hmm.

00:43:47.391 --> 00:43:48.231
doing, why are they doing?

00:43:48.411 --> 00:44:04.882
But I also think one of the strengths of Pokemon is, you know, everybody talks about, you know, they wanna take their Pokemon team with them'cause they've built memories with these creatures that, that is the power of playing games and storytelling games.

00:44:04.882 --> 00:44:06.561
And then it also in particular, is.

00:44:07.161 --> 00:44:12.021
Even as basic as I went through a region and got eight badges.

00:44:12.442 --> 00:44:18.952
I went through a region and went eight badges with a team of friends, and I'm very bonded to these friends now.

00:44:19.585 --> 00:44:30.536
these creatures mean something to me and I, I have very strong memories tied to them, and I want to carry them forward with me.

00:44:30.536 --> 00:44:43.615
I want to be able to continue to remember that even if I didn't care about Aqua and Magma together, we went through this journey we won, and that is a meaningful thing for me.

00:44:43.925 --> 00:44:44.088
Hmm.

00:44:44.088 --> 00:44:46.458
I just thought of an example, Pokemon Coliseum.

00:44:46.657 --> 00:44:47.077
Mm-hmm.

00:44:47.148 --> 00:44:50.208
of my favorite games to play, partly'cause it's very edgy.

00:44:50.507 --> 00:44:52.998
I was very grungy as a kid growing up to that.

00:44:53.148 --> 00:44:54.978
I love that attempt that they were doing.

00:44:54.978 --> 00:44:57.407
I thought it was such a very cool idea.

00:44:57.407 --> 00:44:58.847
I still think to this day, it's kind of cool.

00:44:58.847 --> 00:45:04.847
You have a organization team stagnant and you had this one guy who just kind of breaks away and just carries the machine.

00:45:04.847 --> 00:45:06.617
And I really enjoyed it, you know, as growing up.

00:45:07.248 --> 00:45:12.648
And then I went to play it later on and I saw kind of the flaws in some of the game, not the game.

00:45:12.708 --> 00:45:15.257
Well that demon has flaws, but also the story was telling.

00:45:15.677 --> 00:45:18.318
We never found out why he went away from Team Staman.

00:45:18.318 --> 00:45:21.978
We never found out why he all of a sudden just makes a good leaf out.

00:45:21.978 --> 00:45:23.057
Just'cause of reasons.

00:45:23.507 --> 00:45:29.117
And I mean, I run into the same issue with, I think it's gen six with mega evolutions.

00:45:29.568 --> 00:45:30.438
It bugs the hell outta me.

00:45:30.438 --> 00:45:31.277
People love him to death.

00:45:31.277 --> 00:45:34.188
But for me, I'm older when I experienced them,

00:45:34.293 --> 00:45:34.563
Mm-hmm.

00:45:34.697 --> 00:45:36.378
I don't get the mechanics behind them.

00:45:36.438 --> 00:45:40.818
I don't get why we want to inflict pain to get this extra power.

00:45:41.463 --> 00:45:44.148
They don't ever really address this kind of relationship, if that makes sense.

00:45:44.193 --> 00:45:52.369
interesting because That isn't that much of a, of a leap because we as humans that as well.

00:45:52.940 --> 00:46:00.530
We will inflict pain on ourselves to succeed, and we will especially do that with people that we trust.

00:46:00.860 --> 00:46:06.500
They just never make it explicit in the games again, they walk to the door but never through the

00:46:06.695 --> 00:46:07.114
Mm-hmm.

00:46:07.340 --> 00:46:11.510
and you are really left to sort of figure out, well why?

00:46:12.380 --> 00:46:15.188
would these creatures do this?

00:46:15.608 --> 00:46:26.702
What is it about that bond that they are willing to risk pain a short-term boost of power?

00:46:28.442 --> 00:46:33.601
there's a lot to sort of talk about in there of what does that say about our relationship?

00:46:33.601 --> 00:46:37.112
What does that say about the relationship again, between these creatures and humans?

00:46:37.231 --> 00:46:40.472
It is clearly not a one-way street.

00:46:40.472 --> 00:46:42.061
It is clearly a two-way street.

00:46:42.827 --> 00:46:44.657
But they just won't walk through the door, right?

00:46:44.657 --> 00:46:45.527
Like they just won't.

00:46:45.766 --> 00:46:49.547
We are just sort of left with own feelings about it.

00:46:49.577 --> 00:46:50.987
How do we justify it?

00:46:51.197 --> 00:46:52.396
Is it justifiable?

00:46:52.396 --> 00:47:07.646
I mean, I do think it is justifiable because it is clearly shown to be a trust mechanism where they are deciding to go beyond their limits and trust that you will take care of them be able to succeed.

00:47:07.706 --> 00:47:12.237
Like it is a very important, powerful thing, that they're able to do.

00:47:13.047 --> 00:47:15.688
only some of them can do it and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:47:15.777 --> 00:47:15.987
Yeah,

00:47:16.407 --> 00:47:23.036
Uh, and again, why is, they don't really explain why is there stones involved other than it has to be a mechanic.

00:47:23.067 --> 00:47:25.887
Like, you just sort of have to be like, oh, okay, whatever.

00:47:26.126 --> 00:47:26.487
unless she,

00:47:26.726 --> 00:47:27.146
the power.

00:47:27.146 --> 00:47:27.447
Whatever,

00:47:27.657 --> 00:47:28.047
unless she got

00:47:28.137 --> 00:47:28.376
Fine.

00:47:28.467 --> 00:47:31.376
though, ZA is kind of the little special stepchild of course.

00:47:32.186 --> 00:47:33.717
Well, I mean, they break their own rules

00:47:33.777 --> 00:47:33.836
Uh,

00:47:34.077 --> 00:47:34.617
regularly.

00:47:34.617 --> 00:47:34.677
I.

00:47:34.797 --> 00:47:35.487
that's fair.

00:47:35.697 --> 00:47:36.626
Now we're gonna see Greg.

00:47:36.626 --> 00:47:37.467
Mega evolution.

00:47:38.157 --> 00:47:40.827
Uh, I mean, I'm not a huge fan of mega evolutions.

00:47:40.827 --> 00:47:51.518
I don't think it's, I, the reason why I like Dynamax better is'cause it's, everything can dynamax whereas only select things could mega without a good reason why only effects select things could mega.

00:47:51.518 --> 00:47:55.478
So I just like, I think they needed to explore it more and they just didn't

00:47:55.764 --> 00:47:56.054
Yeah.

00:47:56.184 --> 00:47:58.659
Maybe we will get lucky with a za.

00:47:59.409 --> 00:48:01.148
Eh, I don't have faith, but maybe you never know.

00:48:01.148 --> 00:48:03.639
maybe, I doubt it.

00:48:03.639 --> 00:48:05.079
They don't like walking through doors.

00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:07.179
No, we're just gonna have another door at that point.

00:48:07.509 --> 00:48:07.748
Yeah.

00:48:07.748 --> 00:48:08.679
We're have more doors.

00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:10.329
This is all doors all the way

00:48:10.628 --> 00:48:18.143
Oh my gosh, Greg, one last thing I wanna talk about is, of course, people who know you from being a, a part of it's super effective.

00:48:18.534 --> 00:48:24.534
And I want to like, talk about how did that first happen and what made you want to become a podcaster when it comes to Pokemon?

00:48:25.311 --> 00:48:39.708
So this is, it's kind of a weird story that I didn't become a podcaster until I was in my forties, and it was really a situation where I'd listened to the show for a while.

00:48:39.708 --> 00:48:41.869
I'd listened to, its super perfect for a while.

00:48:42.206 --> 00:48:46.827
but I was also listening to other podcasts and one of'em was the Tuesday Night Games podcast.

00:48:47.277 --> 00:48:58.487
And, they were all talking about how Steve had never played Dungeons and Dragons, and I had always wanted to do Pokemon in the Dungeons and Dragons world.

00:48:58.597 --> 00:48:59.492
Ooh, yes.

00:48:59.867 --> 00:49:03.467
and was sort of at that point an amateur game designer.

00:49:03.467 --> 00:49:11.867
I mean, I still technically am, except people would say since I sell games, I'm actually a professional, but a hobby career, so I don't get, I'm still an amateur.

00:49:12.327 --> 00:49:15.701
but I was like, I will run you through.

00:49:15.782 --> 00:49:17.012
This is an idea that I've had.

00:49:17.012 --> 00:49:20.612
I've worked out a, a class, I've worked out how I think it should work at the game.

00:49:20.677 --> 00:49:23.646
cause I was, I've always been a person that hacks together.

00:49:23.646 --> 00:49:25.476
Games like no Roleplaying game.

00:49:26.376 --> 00:49:28.476
I don't like 100% of every roleplaying game.

00:49:28.476 --> 00:49:31.597
I always figure out like, well I don't like how it does this, so I'm just gonna change it.

00:49:31.637 --> 00:49:32.056
Mm-hmm.

00:49:32.286 --> 00:49:33.936
Um, so I, like, I figured out how to do this class.

00:49:33.936 --> 00:49:41.257
I figured out how to do it and like I would happy to be just to run you all through what I think a Pokemon d and d world would be like.

00:49:41.827 --> 00:49:45.666
And Steve was like, okay, but if I'm going to do this, I wanna record it.

00:49:45.994 --> 00:49:48.125
And so that was how I got into podcasting.

00:49:48.125 --> 00:49:52.144
cause we recorded Mythical, which is our d and D Pokemon podcast.

00:49:52.144 --> 00:49:54.909
And we did that for a couple of years.

00:49:54.969 --> 00:50:05.978
And then, through just general changes, people leaving the ISEI stepped in sort of temporarily and then for a very long time.

00:50:06.442 --> 00:50:09.382
And then it's kind of cool'cause everybody still remembers you to this day.

00:50:09.472 --> 00:50:15.501
What is it like, I'm sorry, you said earlier how you go to these events and people have heard your voice for so long.

00:50:15.501 --> 00:50:19.581
What is it kind of like to be able to see, meet these fans who've listened to the show?

00:50:20.047 --> 00:50:21.246
I mean, I love it.

00:50:21.634 --> 00:50:33.717
it's funny because my boss, who I work for now, I was laid off from my old job and I was looking for a new job, and when I went into the interview process, the recruiter's like, oh, they're really, really excited to talk to you.

00:50:33.717 --> 00:50:35.090
And I'm like, okay, cool.

00:50:35.090 --> 00:50:35.900
Because I'm like, great.

00:50:35.900 --> 00:50:36.920
They like my resume.

00:50:37.070 --> 00:50:44.869
And so I launched interview and the very first thing Mike, now boss said to me, he's like, I just wanna tell you that I listened to the show.

00:50:45.889 --> 00:50:49.969
And I'm like, oh, you know, way too much about me.

00:50:50.105 --> 00:50:51.244
Wow.

00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:52.849
about entering into this.

00:50:53.510 --> 00:50:58.909
Like, you know a lot about me'cause you have listened to my voice and my dumb stories for a long time.

00:50:59.329 --> 00:51:00.260
Um, it's very exciting.

00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:07.389
I, what I love is hearing the impact that I've had on people both positively and sometimes negatively.

00:51:07.389 --> 00:51:15.458
Like sometimes it's hard to know, like you said, X, Y, and Z and that was really hurtful and like, that wasn't a viewpoint that I had had before.

00:51:15.759 --> 00:51:17.588
Thank you for telling me that.

00:51:17.588 --> 00:51:21.668
Sharing your story with me, it gives me insight as to a bigger part of the world.

00:51:21.668 --> 00:51:35.012
But a lot of people, it's just really great to have conversations with people who find joy in just listening to me talk dumb for an hour and get stuff out of that and, it helps alleviate stress in their day.

00:51:35.012 --> 00:51:47.222
I, all of those things are the reasons why I still am in podcasting in many forms is to provide entertainment relief to help get.

00:51:47.911 --> 00:51:50.342
Other ideas out there, like I won't lie.

00:51:50.342 --> 00:51:52.472
It, it is not great.

00:51:52.472 --> 00:52:01.202
Sometimes being a gay man a family podcast, people have a lot of strong feelings about whether or not I should be talking about it.

00:52:01.422 --> 00:52:02.621
Yeah, I'm sure.

00:52:03.121 --> 00:52:06.331
I'm going to let you know this is the life I live.

00:52:06.331 --> 00:52:11.268
It, We are here, there we, there's a lot of us and it's fine.

00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:15.610
you may have questions about it and I don't have a problem answering those questions.

00:52:15.699 --> 00:52:21.940
And if I'm the only person you have ever heard in reality, cool.

00:52:23.175 --> 00:52:24.280
Now you know one.

00:52:24.909 --> 00:52:27.670
And maybe that'll change how you view the world.

00:52:28.431 --> 00:52:34.340
And I think that's kinda the fun part about Pokemon is that it crosses all those lines that we kind of borders those walls.

00:52:34.340 --> 00:52:47.181
Religion, sexual orientation, gender, whatever you want to kind of call it, and allows us to kind of connect with Pokemon and experience each other's stories in a way, because as you said, you know, uh, as a gay man, you have a different, uh, story than the creator.

00:52:47.181 --> 00:52:48.260
Me, I'm pretty straight.

00:52:48.471 --> 00:52:50.992
Or, maybe a woman has a different story than a guy.

00:52:51.023 --> 00:52:56.018
And you know, for me, the biggest thing that I've been surprised just starting this podcast.

00:52:56.481 --> 00:53:00.110
Is how much women were not allowed to play video games.

00:53:00.260 --> 00:53:01.911
It threw me for a loop

00:53:01.925 --> 00:53:02.346
Mm-hmm.

00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:11.686
and I won't go as much detail, but they always been told like, oh, they were either not allowed because it's a guy thing or they were told that, oh, just'cause you're a woman, you can't do it.

00:53:11.835 --> 00:53:16.545
And I've never experienced that and that's been probably my biggest eye-opening experience doing this.

00:53:17.206 --> 00:53:21.567
It's, it's You'll bump into the weird.

00:53:21.942 --> 00:53:24.731
Lines people have that make no sense a lot.

00:53:25.365 --> 00:53:34.036
and if I had any hand in breaking down any of those lines for people, I'm more than happy to have done it.

00:53:34.246 --> 00:53:34.666
Mm-hmm.

00:53:34.726 --> 00:53:45.909
If any time you had to sit down and honestly think about X, Y, Z and I've had a number of people who have come to me have said, I was very against this.

00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:53.679
You made me confront these things and sit down and honestly think, why do I believe these things?

00:53:53.949 --> 00:53:55.389
What is going on?

00:53:55.418 --> 00:53:59.798
'cause this person is clearly what I was led to believe.

00:53:59.798 --> 00:54:06.489
Like a lot of people were, are shocked Like I was probably the first person they ever have ever heard.

00:54:06.489 --> 00:54:08.708
I, my anniversary is Friday.

00:54:08.708 --> 00:54:11.858
We've been married, we've been together for 32 years.

00:54:12.114 --> 00:54:13.043
Oh, happy anniversary.

00:54:13.389 --> 00:54:13.838
Thank you.

00:54:14.199 --> 00:54:15.789
But for a lot of people, they're like.

00:54:16.148 --> 00:54:23.106
I've never heard of a gay relationship that was, as long as my parents are, I'm like, yeah, we exist.

00:54:23.166 --> 00:54:24.907
They just, nobody will ever show it to you.

00:54:25.101 --> 00:54:25.461
Right.

00:54:25.686 --> 00:54:27.817
been together for 32 years now.

00:54:28.293 --> 00:54:34.041
and it's funny'cause a lot of these people I meet, they're like, oh, you've been together longer than I've been alive.

00:54:34.041 --> 00:54:35.302
I'm like, I am aware.

00:54:36.952 --> 00:54:38.391
I am aware of that dynamic.

00:54:38.391 --> 00:54:38.722
Thank you.

00:54:39.097 --> 00:54:39.487
Yep.

00:54:39.637 --> 00:54:39.996
Yep.

00:54:40.297 --> 00:54:42.907
For me, this is the last thing I'll touch on this topic.

00:54:43.387 --> 00:54:52.307
One time I got offered to come on a podcast, to talk And I had just, we were scheduled to record on a Thursday or Friday.

00:54:52.668 --> 00:54:58.277
I had just released an episode that Wednesday, and it was one of my guests who were trans,

00:54:58.398 --> 00:54:58.818
Mm-hmm.

00:54:59.657 --> 00:55:01.637
and they messaged me real quick.

00:55:01.637 --> 00:55:07.097
I'm like, you have, they had such a big issue about the guests being trans.

00:55:07.697 --> 00:55:09.077
And I'm like, why does it matter?

00:55:09.077 --> 00:55:15.527
Like, I've had guests who are black, white, and who are also gay before, like, why does this matter?

00:55:16.143 --> 00:55:21.003
And they said, oh, I'm gonna have to take it to, uh, my group to review it.

00:55:21.362 --> 00:55:22.802
And I said, are they gonna listen to the episode?

00:55:22.802 --> 00:55:24.543
I'm like, I can't promise anything.

00:55:25.233 --> 00:55:29.132
And you know, lo and behold they said, oh, we wanna withdraw the offer of having as a guest.

00:55:29.132 --> 00:55:31.293
And I'm like, that's probably a good thing.

00:55:31.503 --> 00:55:39.422
Like if you can't even sit through an episode just to hear somebody talk about Pokemon who's trans, I probably don't even want to be on your show.

00:55:39.422 --> 00:55:40.623
Like, I'm just gonna be straight with you.

00:55:41.043 --> 00:55:43.202
And it just, that was just so startling.

00:55:43.202 --> 00:55:44.762
It's just, I'm not even trans.

00:55:44.762 --> 00:55:46.893
I'm a straight Hispanic male.

00:55:47.012 --> 00:55:50.463
I have no qualms about it.

00:55:50.612 --> 00:55:55.503
I'm, but for some reason because I had them on as a guest, it bugged them.

00:55:55.802 --> 00:55:59.643
And that's just some of the world you live in or not the world you live in.

00:55:59.643 --> 00:56:01.023
That's kind of the stuff you kind of miss.

00:56:01.322 --> 00:56:03.632
yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I.

00:56:04.742 --> 00:56:06.393
Lived it in the eighties, right?

00:56:06.422 --> 00:56:06.722
Yeah.

00:56:07.143 --> 00:56:10.233
the world we're in now is not the world that I grew up in.

00:56:10.726 --> 00:56:15.826
and you know, those stories will never surprise me.

00:56:16.155 --> 00:56:18.076
That is my lived experience.

00:56:18.076 --> 00:56:22.065
That is it has been like to maneuver through this world.

00:56:22.452 --> 00:56:26.713
so I'm like, yep, they absolutely uninvited you.

00:56:26.742 --> 00:56:29.262
Like that was not a surprise ending thing for me.

00:56:30.012 --> 00:56:30.672
Not at all.

00:56:30.672 --> 00:56:31.123
Like Yep.

00:56:31.123 --> 00:56:32.893
That tracks, that's how people are.

00:56:33.358 --> 00:56:34.797
Well, Greg, I want to ask this question.

00:56:34.827 --> 00:56:36.387
'cause you know, as a gay man,

00:56:36.478 --> 00:56:36.898
Mm-hmm.

00:56:36.987 --> 00:56:43.407
know, it slowly has become more acceptable to a degree compared to back then, you know, obviously maybe some less than others.

00:56:44.188 --> 00:56:47.157
You talked about earlier how, you know, you were older when it came to Pokemon.

00:56:47.668 --> 00:56:56.188
how did you kind of stay, I guess, grounded and positive in Pokemon, knowing that you weren't fully accepted

00:56:56.815 --> 00:57:04.617
I mean, You don't have a choice, but people sort of think like, don't have a choice.

00:57:04.617 --> 00:57:07.347
We don't have a choice to opt out of society.

00:57:08.217 --> 00:57:19.646
don't have a choice to just be like, I'm not dealing with this because we can't, I can't walk away from it.

00:57:19.706 --> 00:57:22.706
I can't not deal with it.

00:57:22.976 --> 00:57:32.757
And so you just have to become very strong in who you are and be like, that's a you problem.

00:57:32.757 --> 00:57:38.967
And one of the things is I don't, people don't sort of and I think they get surprised, is it's like

00:57:39.657 --> 00:57:39.947
Okay.

00:57:39.956 --> 00:57:44.726
its heart, Pokemon is a very queer story.

00:57:45.507 --> 00:57:51.626
are leaving your home with a found family who supports you away from.

00:57:52.221 --> 00:57:57.920
Everything that you knew and these people are carrying you through to victory.

00:57:58.221 --> 00:58:08.630
That is at its heart, one of the most basic queer experiences because so many of us are kicked out of our homes and we find people who support us.

00:58:08.751 --> 00:58:16.731
We find people who fight with us and we will find ways to achieve victory despite whatever stands in our way.

00:58:17.181 --> 00:58:20.840
And that is such a core heart of what these games are.

00:58:21.021 --> 00:58:24.643
And I'm always surprised when people are like shocked at it.

00:58:24.643 --> 00:58:26.742
I'm like, that is my experience.

00:58:27.012 --> 00:58:34.032
The threat of me being kicked out of my home was very real, but I found people to support me.

00:58:34.123 --> 00:58:36.672
I found people who, who understood me.

00:58:36.913 --> 00:58:46.543
I found people who said, I accept for who you are, and I will walk and fight with you.

00:58:46.873 --> 00:58:47.652
And that.

00:58:48.012 --> 00:58:51.523
At its heart is what makes Pokemon brilliant.

00:58:53.128 --> 00:58:56.458
And on that note, Greg, thank you for coming onto the podcast.

00:58:56.518 --> 00:59:00.148
Before you go, I want to ask one last Pokemon question.

00:59:00.253 --> 00:59:00.523
Okay.

00:59:00.987 --> 00:59:04.978
What would be your dream team, Pokemon or Dream Pokemon team?

00:59:04.978 --> 00:59:06.297
What six Pokemon would you bring?

00:59:06.463 --> 00:59:06.882
Okay.

00:59:06.972 --> 00:59:08.322
So these are my six.

00:59:08.382 --> 00:59:11.713
Uh, I recently just redid my rankings.

00:59:11.713 --> 00:59:13.182
I went through the thing online, redid them.

00:59:13.182 --> 00:59:14.713
So Resilia is always number one.

00:59:16.003 --> 00:59:17.202
Save a i is number two.

00:59:18.822 --> 00:59:20.143
Bolton is number three.

00:59:21.193 --> 00:59:28.273
Mbbi is number four a, Lola Meac is number five, and Beck's caliber is number six.

00:59:28.902 --> 00:59:30.282
That is such a unique team.

00:59:30.282 --> 00:59:30.882
I love it.

00:59:30.882 --> 00:59:32.893
Greg, thank you for coming on.

00:59:32.983 --> 00:59:33.643
The Poker Ball Turns.

00:59:33.643 --> 00:59:38.322
If people want to connect with you, if they wanna look, check out anything you're working on, where can they go?

00:59:38.322 --> 00:59:39.568
By all means, please plug away.

00:59:40.123 --> 00:59:43.483
Um, so you can find all of my games at leatherman games.

00:59:43.483 --> 00:59:44.532
That's where I sell my games.

00:59:44.623 --> 00:59:46.842
Uh, and I will hopefully.

00:59:47.983 --> 00:59:53.922
have a Pokemon related announcement of my own Pokemon adjacent announcement, hopefully soon.

00:59:53.922 --> 00:59:55.092
So watch out for that.

00:59:55.483 --> 00:59:58.512
Uh, you can find me on Blue Sky at LIANDRA zero three.

00:59:58.512 --> 01:00:01.063
You can find me on Instagram at liandra zero three.

01:00:01.452 --> 01:00:03.853
Those are the easiest way to connect to me.

01:00:04.302 --> 01:00:07.302
Um, I'm around, I'm not that hard to find.

01:00:07.663 --> 01:00:08.742
I'm not that hard to find.

01:00:09.012 --> 01:00:12.342
If you go to leatherman.games, you'll find connections to all my things.

01:00:12.552 --> 01:00:18.643
Uh, and, and also I think I finally erased my Twitter off that website'cause that place is garbage.

01:00:20.413 --> 01:00:23.382
but uh, yeah, you can find me there.

01:00:23.563 --> 01:00:30.762
Uh, you can listen to my actual play podcast also, if you wanna hear more of me running around, uh, which is called Very Random Encounters.

01:00:31.483 --> 01:00:34.572
then here, I don't know exactly when.

01:00:34.572 --> 01:00:41.893
I'll be starting a new podcast with my friend Logan called Game Mechanics, where we're talking about game mechanics.